Is TFL a model of Libertarian government?
- Thread starter Hal
- Start date
nah... But I WISH the Libertarians stood a chance in this year's elections.
One day maybe... but they're ahead of their time right now. One day we'll say, "Damn, what was I thinking?" when our RKBA has been revoked.
check out http://www.boortz.com
Ben
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Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target" http://ben.gunsnet.net
[This message has been edited by Ben (edited September 09, 2000).]
One day maybe... but they're ahead of their time right now. One day we'll say, "Damn, what was I thinking?" when our RKBA has been revoked.
check out http://www.boortz.com
Ben
------------------
Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target" http://ben.gunsnet.net
[This message has been edited by Ben (edited September 09, 2000).]
Gunslinger
Moderator
A little off topic....but I saw a dicussion with Jesse "The Body" Vantura(sp?), our most noteable Libertarian, a couple of days ago in which he stated if the constitution allowed it Clinton would be elected to a third term. It sounded like he may be in favor of that but to be honest I was cussing too luod to really hear him.
On topic....I do think that most Internet firearm enthusiast discussion boards (I belong to 12) have a primarily Libertarian concensus among the membership. Not due to the structure of the political nature of the boards adminstrators or staffing but due to the prevailing feelings of the members themselves. This attitude is most evident when topics of law enforcment issues are being discussed.
I don't think that this is necessarily a model of a Libertarian government but rather a collection of free thinkers.....which may in itself be a model.
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Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
On topic....I do think that most Internet firearm enthusiast discussion boards (I belong to 12) have a primarily Libertarian concensus among the membership. Not due to the structure of the political nature of the boards adminstrators or staffing but due to the prevailing feelings of the members themselves. This attitude is most evident when topics of law enforcment issues are being discussed.
I don't think that this is necessarily a model of a Libertarian government but rather a collection of free thinkers.....which may in itself be a model.
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Gunslinger
I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
Unfortunately, some people believe liberty, freedom and/or Libertarianism
involve no sense of responsibility to others. Such is not the case. For
example:
The Second Amendment grants us the right to keep and bear arms. I would
hope we all agree on that. However, the Second Amendment does not give
us the right to shoot those firearms when and where the mood strikes us.
- I have no right to trespass on your property simply because my hunting is
my expression of the Second Amendment.
- I have no right to wave guns around, covering your kids with the muzzle of
my .45, as a Second Amendment right.
- I have no right to threaten to shoot you because we support different
football teams.
- The list is too extensive to contemplate - so we rely upon certain safety
rules and even additional rules of simple courtesy. For example, it is
considered crude to handle another person's firearm without asking
permission, etc.
Likewise, the First Amendment, among other valued concepts, gives us the
right to free speech. But there are limitations imposed for reasons of law and
courtesy.
- Say you’re walking in the mall, minding your own business, and some
tough-looking character jumps in front of you screaming and cursing about
some political viewpoint. Most of us would find that offensive.
- Now let’s say he comes into your home as a guest and starts ranting about
some political viewpoint. Even if he avoids vulgarities, after a while his
ranting gets old. And if he resorts to a constant stream of vulgarities, in
front of your family, most of us would tell him to stop or leave.
- Again, there’s too much to address to continue.
My point is this. Read the forum policies.
1) All Topics and Posts must be related to firearms, accessories
or civil liberties issues.
We’ve let that slip a bit so our members can get to know each other better.
There also are times we simply must cool it when the subject matter is so
emotion-laden that such discussions divide us rather than unite us.
2) Language that would be inappropriate in the polite company of strangers
is quite unwelcome here.
Easy rule of thumb, “If you would not say it in Rich Lucibella’s living room,
don’t say it here.”
Our children are our future and many parents read TFL with small
children at their side or even in their lap. Although my vocabulary has
startled sailors, I try to maintain a level of propriety higher than HBO in my
TFL posts. I request the same of others.
Also, inserting an asterisk or dollar sign in a vulgar word attracts the
attention of our younger viewers and makes TFL less valuable to parents and
children alike. I ask that it be stopped as a matter of courtesy and respect
for those who are trying to teach Second Amendment rights to their kids.
3) No trolling, flaming or other personal attacks, be they acrimonious or
veiled in humor. If you take issue with a Member's position, by all means
speak your mind. If you have a problem with a Member's religion, creed,
national origin, sex, politics, associations or personal hygiene, take it to
email.
- This rule should be self-explanatory. If someone flames you or otherwise
rouses your ire, answer with logic rather than epithets - or spill your bile by
e-mail. Oh, and point out the violations to the Staff.
-----
I realize that any attempt to require common courtesy has caused simpletons
to call me tyrannical, a Nazi, a censor, etc. So be it. Rich Lucibella has
provided us with the finest firearms-related bulletin board on the internet.
The Staff tries to uphold a certain level of courtesy and propriety so this
bulletin board - just this one - is suitable for entire families.
For those who feel likewise, welcome aboard.
For those who feel otherwise, I suggest one of the other firearms-related
boards.
For those who want to argue, refer to rule four.
4) As we can never convey a philosophy through a few rules, we reserve the
right, in our sole discretion, to edit or delete posts and/or to
revoke Membership. No Second Chances; No Argument; No Trial; No Way. At
best you will receive one warning.
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited September 10, 2000).]
involve no sense of responsibility to others. Such is not the case. For
example:
The Second Amendment grants us the right to keep and bear arms. I would
hope we all agree on that. However, the Second Amendment does not give
us the right to shoot those firearms when and where the mood strikes us.
- I have no right to trespass on your property simply because my hunting is
my expression of the Second Amendment.
- I have no right to wave guns around, covering your kids with the muzzle of
my .45, as a Second Amendment right.
- I have no right to threaten to shoot you because we support different
football teams.
- The list is too extensive to contemplate - so we rely upon certain safety
rules and even additional rules of simple courtesy. For example, it is
considered crude to handle another person's firearm without asking
permission, etc.
Likewise, the First Amendment, among other valued concepts, gives us the
right to free speech. But there are limitations imposed for reasons of law and
courtesy.
- Say you’re walking in the mall, minding your own business, and some
tough-looking character jumps in front of you screaming and cursing about
some political viewpoint. Most of us would find that offensive.
- Now let’s say he comes into your home as a guest and starts ranting about
some political viewpoint. Even if he avoids vulgarities, after a while his
ranting gets old. And if he resorts to a constant stream of vulgarities, in
front of your family, most of us would tell him to stop or leave.
- Again, there’s too much to address to continue.
My point is this. Read the forum policies.
1) All Topics and Posts must be related to firearms, accessories
or civil liberties issues.
We’ve let that slip a bit so our members can get to know each other better.
There also are times we simply must cool it when the subject matter is so
emotion-laden that such discussions divide us rather than unite us.
2) Language that would be inappropriate in the polite company of strangers
is quite unwelcome here.
Easy rule of thumb, “If you would not say it in Rich Lucibella’s living room,
don’t say it here.”
Our children are our future and many parents read TFL with small
children at their side or even in their lap. Although my vocabulary has
startled sailors, I try to maintain a level of propriety higher than HBO in my
TFL posts. I request the same of others.
Also, inserting an asterisk or dollar sign in a vulgar word attracts the
attention of our younger viewers and makes TFL less valuable to parents and
children alike. I ask that it be stopped as a matter of courtesy and respect
for those who are trying to teach Second Amendment rights to their kids.
3) No trolling, flaming or other personal attacks, be they acrimonious or
veiled in humor. If you take issue with a Member's position, by all means
speak your mind. If you have a problem with a Member's religion, creed,
national origin, sex, politics, associations or personal hygiene, take it to
email.
- This rule should be self-explanatory. If someone flames you or otherwise
rouses your ire, answer with logic rather than epithets - or spill your bile by
e-mail. Oh, and point out the violations to the Staff.
-----
I realize that any attempt to require common courtesy has caused simpletons
to call me tyrannical, a Nazi, a censor, etc. So be it. Rich Lucibella has
provided us with the finest firearms-related bulletin board on the internet.
The Staff tries to uphold a certain level of courtesy and propriety so this
bulletin board - just this one - is suitable for entire families.
For those who feel likewise, welcome aboard.
For those who feel otherwise, I suggest one of the other firearms-related
boards.
For those who want to argue, refer to rule four.
4) As we can never convey a philosophy through a few rules, we reserve the
right, in our sole discretion, to edit or delete posts and/or to
revoke Membership. No Second Chances; No Argument; No Trial; No Way. At
best you will receive one warning.
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited September 10, 2000).]
RAE, I mean Federalist as in the original Federalist government as established by the US Constitution. Representatives chosen from the populace (in this case contributors to TFL) and serving under an executive (Mr Lucibella) administer a government based on certain laws (in this case, rules). These rules are based on maximizing efficient and orderly interaction between TFL members, and the well-being of the population as a whole (the TFL board) is preeminent over individual license.
In a Libertarian form of message board, the right of expression of each individual member would be preeminent over the orderly interaction of the group---ak-47.net would be a good example of this sort of message board.
There are other iterations along the scale between anarchy and dictatorship that are evident in the various gun message boards on the net, with something like the General Discussion forum on subguns.com being almost anarchy. I won't name the board I think most closely follows a dictatorship (it isn't this one in case anyone is in the mood to take offense) so as not to start any side arguments.
Hope you (and others, apparently) better understand what I was saying now.
In a Libertarian form of message board, the right of expression of each individual member would be preeminent over the orderly interaction of the group---ak-47.net would be a good example of this sort of message board.
There are other iterations along the scale between anarchy and dictatorship that are evident in the various gun message boards on the net, with something like the General Discussion forum on subguns.com being almost anarchy. I won't name the board I think most closely follows a dictatorship (it isn't this one in case anyone is in the mood to take offense) so as not to start any side arguments.
Hope you (and others, apparently) better understand what I was saying now.
RAE,
Umm. No, RAE. I'm a little lost here....
I was trying to state that Libertarianism involves some level of personal restraint toward others. Total "freedom" could involve "rape, pillage, plunder and burn," chaos, etc.
Contrary to some facile accusations, libertarianism, Libertarianism (the party) and TFL require some level of respect and accomodation of others and their views.
That's all. No offense taken. No apology needed. OK?
Umm. No, RAE. I'm a little lost here....I was trying to state that Libertarianism involves some level of personal restraint toward others. Total "freedom" could involve "rape, pillage, plunder and burn," chaos, etc.
Contrary to some facile accusations, libertarianism, Libertarianism (the party) and TFL require some level of respect and accomodation of others and their views.
That's all. No offense taken. No apology needed. OK?
Ventura is not "our most noteable Libertarian". Untill last Feb. He was in the Reform Party.
Last I read he was into starting up something called the Independence Party. http://www.jesseventura.org/friendsofjv/frndltr.htm
Harry Browne is a better choice for "most noteable". Currently the most effective Libertarians are probably working in local governments, ballot initiatives and grass root endeavors.
Not to promote the info hwy cliche, but TFL is far from a government, it is more like a modern route 66. This road accidentally exposes any traveller to the heart of america.
Last I read he was into starting up something called the Independence Party. http://www.jesseventura.org/friendsofjv/frndltr.htm
Harry Browne is a better choice for "most noteable". Currently the most effective Libertarians are probably working in local governments, ballot initiatives and grass root endeavors.
Not to promote the info hwy cliche, but TFL is far from a government, it is more like a modern route 66. This road accidentally exposes any traveller to the heart of america.
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
Nope - Anarchist, in the strict definition of the term. But here I agree to follow the rules established by the Old Man - Oligarchy?
Ed Brunner
New member
TFL is a Benign Proprietory Dictatorship if you want to be specific.
As long as you obey his rules you may exist here.
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You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."
Better days to be,
Ed
As long as you obey his rules you may exist here.
------------------
You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."
Better days to be,
Ed