Is static electricity dangerous w/ reloading?

F

fariaguard

Inactive
Newbie…..and I’m thinking it is. Please educate me as I don’t want to get blown up! My area is carpeted so it’s probably going to happen with walking and normal operations around and on the bench. I would like to shop vac the area and bench to clean up metal shavings, debris etc. Shop vacs cause static electricity. Of course the powder and accessories that hold powder will be put away before the vacuum is turned on. Any thoughts?

Also I would like to put a 1/8” to 5/32” plastic top over the 2” thick maple bench top to keep it ‘pretty’. I have a relationship with a plastic vendor who can recommend a non static plastic material. This will protect the wood from wear during basic gun cleaning, maintenance and solvents. Some will say I am over thinking the bench cover and I probably am but I want it to last a lifetime.

My concern is safety first and the ONLY area I have is carpeted. Is it time to rip out the carpet? Wife will not be happy!

Thanks as always.
 
Static is only really a hazard with black powder, not smokeless. I would however find a floor mat to cover the area, because you will eventually drop a primer and/or spill some powder and that will make it much easier to find and clean up.
 
I'll second that,
A nice HARD surface makes for MUCH easier clean up.
Those under desk plastic floor coverings are at every office supply store for cheap.

I hate carpet.
You can't get it clean once its laid, only force dirt/water deeper into the carpet/pad,
The amount of fibers a carpet sheds is unbleveable, and anyone that works/cleans computers of heating ducts will tell you to get rid of the carpet.
(Or cover it with something you can clean up)

If you are worried about static, under your maple top, simply run a wire to a mounting bolt on each metal appliance on top,
Get into the habit of touching any of the connected metal when you sit down.

You do NOT have to 'Ground', but you do have to equalize with anything electrically insulated on the work top.

Just for the record, unless that work top has an electrically insulated finish, wood doesn't produce or hold a static charge.

The truely paranoid will connect the metal components to the ground circuit of the home, some have even added an extra ground rod to the homes to connect to...
The 'Round' or 'U' shaped prong on your wall outlet is an 'Earth Ground' or 'Ground' that's readily accessable in most homes.
The screw in the middle of a wall outlet is usually 'Grounded' also.
A small wire from screw to mounted table top gadgets (wire under table) will do the job without being a huge production and still leave the outlets useable.
 
Those plastic carpet covers can add more static than than the carpet. Wood would be best. If you want to test to see how much of a problem you might have, scoff around in you bear feet on the carpet and then touch one of the metal screws on a walk switch. If you get a shock, you might have issues. The dryer the air the worst the problem will be. I've loaded on carpet for a while and while finding a dropped primer can be a problem ( a small magnet will help ) I have had no issues with static.

We just ripped all the carpet an put down vinyl plank so I'll have a new environment to load in.
 
You can always get a tight weave area rug for your area so all you have to do is take it outside and shake it clean of any powder spills.

If you are using one of the press mounts that makes it sit on top of the bench, instead of overhanging it, then place your press in a steam table tray - that will contain any spills to the tray
 
+1 bedlamite
+1 press in a steam table tray, cookie tin, aluminum tray (cheap) I use one for my MEC 650 works great everything in one place easy cleanup.
 
"...don’t want to get blown up..." You won't. Smokeless powder doesn't explode. It just burns quickly.
Nearly every tool you'll be using when reloading from bullet pullers to funnels and powder throwers, is plastic. Nothing to worry about.
"...Wife will not be happy!..." Don't even think about messing with her carpets. You have to live there.
Go buy a copy of The ABC's of Reloading.
 
Magnet???

Shenna--I'm puzzled--How can a magnet help to find something that is all brass in its metal components, such as a rifle or pistol primer? Now, shotgun primers are steel, and obviously would respond to a magnet, but shotgun primers are large and not easy to lose, even in a shag carpet. Rifle or pistol primers can get lost in a carpet, but I can't see the advantage in using a magnet to search for them.

Mebbe I'm misunderstanding your post. Could you enlighten me?
 
I have been reading about the dangers of static electricity for as long as I've frequented reloading forums (15 yrs.?), but I have yet to read an actual report of any fire, explosion, damage to equipment, etc.. I have experience "static cling" in my powder measures, but that is the extent of my "static electricity concerns". Perhaps this is one of those theories that have been blown way out of proportion by "overly" concerned reloaders and parroted by "believers"...:confused:
 
Nearly every tool we own is designed for reloading

That does not mean plastic in general is safe.

I don't know about or have a static issue but if it is, plastic can be a static issue if its not specifically anti static characteristics

You might look into an office chair anti static shield, they are intended to roll a chair around on and not build up static that zarks a computer.

It might take a couple depending on how long your bench area is.

All my work is in the shop, no carpet and I sweep up my stuff.

Bench needs a new top but it will be wood for a number of reasons.
 
{Edit: my browser found the wrong video, so my comments did not apply}.

Fariaguard,

Welcome to the hobby.

If you follow Steve's video, you will see there is no ignition danger from common household static as it is less potent than a stun gun. There are, however, some indirect dangers. One is that you will find that if you have a strong static charge on your body and approach the pan of a scale with your hand, the scale pan will deflect or, with an electric one, merely show the weight numbers getting off. Another is that it is also theoretically possible to damage an electronic scale with a static discharge, thereby causing it to give false readings. Additionally, powder measure hoppers can suffer from static cling, with powder sometimes failing to dispense correctly in the presence of a strong static charge. I've only ever seen a low charge result from this, but low charges can leave a bullet stuck in a barrel and if you then shoot a fully charged round into it, that can burst the gun.

So, basically you don't want to do things that cause charge errors in reloading, so you want to avoid static for that reason. There are several ways to go about it. One is to wear an anti-static wrist band that is grounded. You can also put an anti-static mat under your equipment and just lean your wrists on it periodically to keep the charge off of you. These frequently come with a wrist strap so you don't have to make the extra periodic pause for discharge. You can also get an anti-static anti-fatigue floor mat to stand on, and if you run a ground wire to it, that helps.

Another somewhat ridiculous looking method is to make the proverbial tin foil hat and stick a bunch of straight pins through it from the inside until it looks like a mad sculptor's idea of a porcupine. Wearing that will bleed the charge off your body. What happens is your charge tends to repel itself and it can't accumulate enough unit charges on the sharp pin points to avoid repelling itself into the air. You can make the foil more durable by first attaching it to a construction paper backing with a spray adhesive, and then folding that into the hat. Aluminum tape can be used to back the pin heads so they don't slip out. Just don't let anyone photograph you reloading like this.

But before you bother with any of it, look and see if you are getting weighing errors or not? It all depends on humidity and other factors in your area. I get the pan weight errors where I am if I lean over the scale to read it. But rather than a wrist strap, I have put grounded foil under my bench top and just touch piece of grounded metal when I lean over the scale.
 
I think the key is to keep area clean of spilled powder. Powder on carpet is fire hazard. Years ago I vacuumed up .22 in a traditional type vacuum and it ignited. When I load SG shells I cut one of those dryer sheets into a small strip and put it in powder hopper and fill over it. Hang it so idles not go so deep as to clog. It eliminates static cling to the plastic bottle to give a more reliable powder drop.
 
something that you should consider in any case is that you should keep your powder separate in small quantities. You don't need more than one can on the bench, putting a pound on the bench with you and a few hunred primers will help ensure your safety if you do happen to somehow set off a fire.

A powder magazine for commercial purposes according to some documentation I once read should be a wooden cabinet with two inches of wood, laminated boards, overlapping with no gaps, no nails that pierce the inside, no metal hardware inside, yadda yadda, essentially wood, capable of blowing out in case of accident, nothing that can cause ignition, and nothing that can damage the individual storage units.

Piling fifty pounds of powder or even hundreds onto an open shelf in a room isn't a good idea. The cans are meant to burst incase of fire, rather than build compression and explode, and most smokeless won't create a hellish fire, and could actually put itself out.

But, the bottom line is that the bulk storage belongs in a stable, dry, cool place, where it is protected as absolutely as possible, and only working quantitities belong on a bench.

I guess I keep about twenty or more pounds on hand at any time, and I keep it along a wall in my basement in a locked wooden cabinet. Id really feel safer with it in several cabinets in several corners. Honestly, if a pound of powder ignited in a room, unless it's full of flammable products, it may self extinguish. The biggest concern I would have is that a house fire could set off a massive burn with ten pounds of powder, and that could be just as bad as a gallon of solvents or thinners.
 
Shenna, Anti-static plastic floor covers are everywhere, usually what you are experencing is static from the chair covering when you are on a floor cover, the chair is no longer in direct contact with the floor, so static chargers can't equalize with the general charge in the room.
A plain metal leg chair will usually stop that issue since it won't have synthetic covering on the seat/back to collect a charge.

Steve 4102,
The video you posted is VERY interesting!

I don't know if the guy was trying to show things in laymans terms,
Or if he didn't understand fully the difference in power output when an electrical arc happens...
I'm leaning towards laymans terms since he did exactly the correct things in steps to get to an ignition point.

Any and every electrical arc has three components,

1. Is electrical potential to work with, the 'Charge'.
Charge is usually expressed in 'Watts' or 'Joules'.

2. Is Amperage, the 'Heat' in the arc gap.
(Think welding arc, the more the amperage is cranked up, the 'Hotter' the weld temp)

3. Is the Duration (Time) the arc stays alive in the gap.

Your STARTING 'Charge' has to be high enough to produce Amperage (heat) to ignite the powder,
And it has to be high enough to SUSTAIN (Duration) that amperage level to heat/ignite the powder to get a fire...

Remember, the initial charge is seeking 'Ground' or equalization through the shortest/easiest path, and its only regulated by the conductor path to 'Ground',

As demonstrated in the video, it's usually much too quick (duration) and/or weak (amperage) to set the powder on fire.

Now, if you were to GRIND the powder in to much finer particles (actual powder instead of grannuals) it would be MUCH easier to ignite,
What happens in powder 'Explosions' all the time, no matter if it's gun powder, gain dust, ect.

*IF* we were working with actual 'Powder' in the 50 to 5 micron range, there would be a LOT more fires/explosions from static.
IF there were small powder in the air, there would be a lot more fires/explosions from static.
 
Is static electricity dangerous w/ reloading?
Click to expand...

There was an owner of a Dillon RL 550 B that set off a stack of primers in a primer tube. He destroyed the tube and did major damaged to his hand. Like a pistol and or rifle when destroyed by a reloader; ‘Must have been a double charge!” he blamed ‘the accident’ on static electricity. I was not there but I could duplicate the accident 10 times out of 10 tries. The primer tube was folded in the middle, folding the tube in the middle will crush primers. The crushed primers in the center of the tube opened/blew out the tube on one side and ignited the primers above and below the fold.

When something is dropped the first tendency is to grab for it, I can not ignite primers with static electricity but I can fold a loaded primer tube with a ki-rack chop and bust the primers every time.

And then there are antimagnetic watches; it was not what I was looking for and I did not have enough ambition to find out what electricity looked like when it traveled through the brain; nor do I believe recommend using it as a diagnostic tool is a good ideal. But it did not take me long to ‘look at it’ when determining what the problem was.

F. Guffey
 
Steve4102,

I owe you an apology. For some reason, when I clicked your link I wound up viewing this video instead of the one you intended. No clue why it happened, but when Jeephammer's description didn't match what I saw, I clicked it again and double-checked the URL and this time got the right one.


Jeephammer,

You're close. The charge, Q, on the capacitor will be measured in Coulombs (the number of extra electrons and missing electrons (holes) on the opposing capacitor plates. This is just the voltage on the capacitor times the capacitance in Farads. The amount of potential energy in that charge varies directly with capacitance but as the square of the voltage, and it is the potential energy that is measured in Joules. J=½FV². If you know the energy of the charge and either the voltage or capacitance, you can then rearrange that equation to give you the charge in coulombs on the plates, though it's not usually something you particularly need to know.

A Watt, however, cannot be used to measure charge. A Watt is a measure of power, the rate at which energy is consumed, delivered, converted, or translated. One Watt is defined as an energy rate of one Joule per second, W=J/s.

So, what the fellow in the video is doing is delivering a certain amount of energy, measured in Joules, at a controlled rate, measured in Watts.

The one thing he is doing that I would change is to use an inductor instead of a resistor to control power. As he says himself, that resistor throws energy away. The inductor is extra cost compared to the resistor, but since you then no longer consume power in the resistor, it lets you use a smaller capacitor voltage or else a smaller capacitance. This would save battery life.
 
I have charged money for designing things that survive static electricity, lightning, and EMP [secret, but not top secret] from a nuke attack.

Probably Uncle Nick has too.

The truth is I did the same tricks for all of them.

We have all seen flour mill explosions on TV set off by static electricity.

I am not going say much more about it, but if one puts combustible combinations in a plastic garbage bag, as the bag fills, static may set it off. This can kill. So some guys I know put a drop of water in the bag to prevent static.

I demonstrated an 1867 Kelvin water dropper at the University of Washington Electrical Engineering open house in 1976.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin_water_dropper
With a pair of parallel plates as capacitor, the water drops fall for while then there is an explosive spark as it discharges.
 
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