Is political correctnes cool with religion?

J

James E

Moderator
Just got around to reviewing the 'Political Correctness' thread, and without mentioning any names I feel compelled to say a few words.

I've been guilty of using Jesus Christ name on some of these threads...probably because I feel like a short timer on this planet...no one lives forever. But I have to ask myself...is it cool to sound like a Right Wing Christian on these threads when a lot of folks out there are not Christians. If you want to preach morality shouldn't one go find yourself a pulpit in a church to expound your views. The Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons have their own TV media, and I for one don't like these type of individuals, they are self serving and self absorbed with their fundamentalism. Their brain wash of naive and gullible folks is mind boggling to behold. As can sometimes be seen the rubbed off bias that has stuck to some individuals on these threads. All I'm saying is please don't use religion like a gun of morality. It isn't necessary nor is it productive to all viewers. If you don't like that...then we should give equal time to all other faiths out there. And I for one would not bother to tune in on any of them. I'm here for the guns and the RKBA, and to repel all boarders who would infringe those sacred rights.
Amen and Awomen.

James
 
IMHO, it is cool to invoke the name of Jesus or Buddha or Allah or Bertrand Russell or Maria Conchita Alonso* if you like. I don't think anybody's going to get on your case because of your faith, we have all sorts here, and jumping on somebody because of their religion is against Board policy.

If you start telling evrybody they have to believe your own particular brand of religion or they are scum, that's rudeness and the group will respond, but you don't sound like someone who would do that.

As for political correctness, I wouldn't have it on a silver platter with parsley springs around it. Say what you mean, and don't worry about being PC.

* I mention her because she is a Goddess! See her with Ahnold in "The Running Man". She's the best thing about the movie. :)
 
I do not care if someone expresses there views about any particular religion, I may not agree with them, but I will not stop them. Same with issues of morality. It is not my right to judge anyone, that is reserved for a much higher power than myself. But I am also allowed to express my views, they are at the core of who I am; keeping quiet about my religion and about my convictons lessens the man that I am and I will not do so.
 
This is a no win thread for TFL. If we close it, we'll be villified for "censoring" a polite thread. If we don't we'll be harassed for not closing it when we've closed others.

Compromise: As long as it doesn't become a soapbox for the one "true" faith, we'll just monitor.
Rich
 
Not mentioning JC is getting to be politicaly correct.Personanly I do not care what a person believes so long as he acts like a decent human being.Treat others as you want to be treated I think could be the bottom line for all humans.(maybe nonhumans too.Just in case any are lurking)
Hope I don't get flamed on this one.

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Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.
 
Rich, if you think this is going to be a problem thread I certainly don't want that to happen. Guess I forgot how crazy people can be when it comes to religion, not that anyone so far has flexed any resenment but it could lead to that. So, you certainly have my endorsement if you want to kill it or gently put it to sleep. If one is not an ordained certified preacher then one shouldn't preach biased points of view is my only thought on this issue. Rich...thy will be done.

Jim

Jim
 
Some use Jesus's name in discussing the historical record, others use the name reverently as a matter of faith, while others use it as sort an adjective, as a matter of expressing anger, shock(seemingly unique to name Jesus Christ--I've yet to hear someone hit their thumb with a hammer and shout BUDDHA !!), etc.

I would suggest that to using Jesus's name, or anyone's name for the latter reasons is disrespectful. I would also suggest there is a distinct difference between exersizing a healthy respect for someone elses beliefs and being PC. Showing respect is a sign of maturity, while knowlingly being disrespectful merely to make one feel as though one is shaking off the shackles of 'PC' servitude is juvenile.

Here's an exersize. Take the person's name who you love the most. Now use it as Jesus's name is sometimes used, as in "Jesus f****** Christ". Only this time take your loved ones name, "Mary f****** Smith" and imagine someone saying that to you directly. Like it?
Simple respect. It's not that difficult.

Chris..



[This message has been edited by ChrisL (edited August 01, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by ChrisL (edited August 01, 2000).]
 
I DO have a problem with people who announce absolute edicts without any other reasoning than "<insert diety's name here> said so". I have seen people make up scriptures on the spot, throwing in a few 'thee's and 'thou's like that made whatever they thought perfectly legitimate. Like a lot of other folks, I think I have been beaten over the head by these people so often that I instinctively recoil from them. <shrug> I haven't seen any of that at TFL but maybe I'm missing something.
IMHO all of the major religions have moral systems based on the same tenets: don't go around killing people, stealing, look both ways before crossing the street... those kinds of things. 99% of them are applicable ,reinfoced with reason and are excellent rules for maintaining a working society. I have no problem with someone citing a religious reference when applying it from a logical direction. I have seen some folks use them on TFL as part of their signatures, which I think is cool and well considered.
As for being politically correct, who cares? PC stands for "Poop Chute" as far as I am concerned - all it produces is crap.

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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
 
I used to be pretty neutral about religion until I lived near loud hedonistic atheists who behaved like animals (in NYC yet). No need to be loud about religion. Just do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Yes, that is in the Bible, and yes, that is in the heart of sensible moral persons who may or may not be a Christians. Whether you want to call it proof or coincidence it is a good rule to live by.
 
It doesn't, or least shouldn't matter a person's religion when discussing RKBA. I'm a staunch christian and fully support JPFO. And I would support some group calling itself "Godless Pagans for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership." When it comes to freedom, I would hope all people would join together. These threads are for the discussion of Firearms, and Constitutional Freedoms.

When it comes to RKBA, the argument is debated, not the source. To attack the person is a logical fallicy called Ad Hominim Abusive.

And as mentioned above, TFL may shut any thread down if it becomes offensive, for any reason.

Yes we would all like to have some people not speak in public. Pat Robertson may grind on some people. And HCI should wake up and smell the freedom it's trying to kill. But they both have a first amendment right to speak in public, and us folks who love freedom should be grateful they at least can do so. Even if we disagree at some point.

To finally get to your question of; Is Religion PC? I don't think the christian religion is PC in today's culture. As far as being PC in TFL. Is anybody PC that would post on TFL? :D

Hope this helps. Take six then reload.


My Bumper sticker: "HARRY BOWMAN FOR PRESIDENT"


This is the edit. I meant to say : My bumper sticker is "HENRY BOWMAN FOR PRESIDENT". Sorry, it was late and my mind couldn't keep up with my mouth. Typical.
[This message has been edited by MP Freeman (edited August 03, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by MP Freeman (edited August 03, 2000).]
 
MP Freeman,
Not a flame but just a note: I had a good laugh at the " Godless Pagans for the Preservation of Firearm Ownership". Only problem is that pagans worship lots of gods. :) ;) :D :mad: :rolleyes: :p

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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[This message has been edited by Apple a Day (edited August 03, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Apple a Day (edited August 03, 2000).]
 
I thought JC stood for Jeff Cooper. Anyone want to join the First Church of the Single Action Auto? Its 10 Commandments:

1. All guns are loaded at all times (and if thine is not, lock and load NOW).

2. Always point thy muzzle in a safe direction, or at a felon.

3. Keep thy finger off the trigger till ready to shoot. Once thy finger is on the trigger, keep it there till the bad guy stops moving.

4. Be sure of thy target and thy backstop. If thou canst get all the bad guys to line up single file it saves on ammo.

5. Honor the memory of John Browning, who giveth the 1911 and the Hi-Power.

6. Six days shalt thou labor, on the seventh thou shalt get the to the range and practice.

7. Thou shalt align thy sights, control thy breathing and squeeze, not jerk, thy trigger.

8. Goeth not to a gunfight without a gun, or thou shalt inherit the earth (six feet of it anyway).

9. There shalt be no such thing as too many guns or too many spare mags.

10. Thou shalt keep and bear arms all the days of thy life.

(NOTE: This is not intended to mock anyone's faith, only to suggest that we show "religious" devotion to RKBA.)
 
James,
What you need to understand if if you want the freedom to say you don't like Christian conversation then others have the right to say they do. As a Christian myself, I will not hesitate to share my faith in Jesus Christ if I sense the need. On the other hand I will not tell someone that because they believe in something else they will go to hell. That would be offensive and if I realy belive my faith is true then giving someone the opportunity to make a choice is all that is needed.
If hearing the name Jesus Christ used properly creates distress in your mind then maybe there is an inner battle going on that you haven't dealt with yet.

If you don't like hearing people speak freely then I suggest you sell your computer. A persons religion is their way of life. They don't turn it off just to talk on TFL.

Finally,
Do a little research and find out what was the basis for the writing of the Constitution and what it was founded on. If you don't like Christianity then you don't like the Constitution. Think about this before you reply. I don't intend to start a riot, just to invoke some thought about where our rights stem from.

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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
NRA lifer
GOA
GSSF
KABA

[This message has been edited by leedesert (edited August 03, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by leedesert (edited August 03, 2000).]
 
I have never stated I was not a Christian, nor Christian conversation per say. I have stated I don't care for right-wing Christians who expound a bias and annoying doctrinal malaize that is suited to their harsh views on the subject of Christianity. A lot of it indeed comes from the southern region where I was born. Only God knows my heart and soul, and no one from GA does. Be glad to send you a poem I've written in tribute to the second coming if you're interested.

Jim
 
David Scott, I'm in. How much is the tithe? How does confession work?

"Forgive me, RO, for I have sinned. I shot a 6" group at 25 feet, and I did it with a Jennings. With the Gangsta Grip."

"Your penance is to fire 2 boxes of 230gr FMJ through your 1911, striving to cleanse yourself by shooting a 2" group. Go your way and sin no more."

:D ;) :)
 
While I agree with you James I still have to state that it was right wing Christians that formed the constitution. The great leaders of our country were outspoken about their belief as well.
If a person truely believes in a particular Religion, and it does not influence all aspects of their life, I tend to question the sincerity of their faith or the validity of their religion.

Our forefathers were very outspoken about their moral view points. So much so they even included it in the Constitution and the Declaration of independants. George Washington would make Jerry Fallwell look like a choir boy compared to his outspoken view points on his religion.

We enjoy the blanket of freedom given to us by those people who lived by their religion but we get offended when someone tries to share that religion....funny.




------------------
"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
NRA lifer
GOA
GSSF
KABA

[This message has been edited by leedesert (edited August 03, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Coinneach:
David Scott, I'm in. How much is the tithe? How does confession work?

"Forgive me, RO, for I have sinned. I shot a 6" group at 25 feet, and I did it with a Jennings. With the Gangsta Grip."[/quote]

Anyone who can shoot a 6" group at 25 feet with a Jennings in the Gangsta Grip has to be a superb marksman! Like winning Daytona in a '63 Rambler station wagon. :)

Actually there is no confession and penance; sins with a firearm bring their own punishment.

Membership in The First Church of SAA is simple. You must shoot 85% or higher on any recognized qualification course, be able to field-strip and reassemble a 1911 in less than two minutes in the dark, and police up your brass. Tithes are one round for every magazine you shoot, and since 200-round Range Services are held weekly, this supports the Church's reserve ammo stores nicely as well as furnishing a cloud of incense.

Win five local IDPA matches and you get ordained; take a regional title and we make you a Cardinal, at which you get to baptize new members with Breakfree CLP. You also get to wear some really nifty red velvet holsters with gold trim.
 
Thank you leedesert for being so judgemental about myself and my beliefs. This is exactly what I am getting at with the right wing Christian crowd, they got it all together and you had better not rock their boat. Well, your boat doesn't have a good rudder or stears man, you are too damn judgemental and intolorant of other folks and their capacity of beliefs, so flame away oh pious one I've heard it all before. By the way, what about my poem...don't you care to see what a heathen like me has composed or would you just rather continue having me pegged the way you have?

Jim
 
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