Is my Kar98 Real or Fake (Loads of Pictures)

K

Kman98

Inactive
I bought this at a little gun store, I jumped the gun when I saw that it was for sale for $750. (Pun intended) When I asked them about the etching in the bolt they said it was like that when it was shipped to them. Here are the pictures.

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This is the underside of the bolt

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It means Knox Tennessee on this pic above, doesnt it.. (I just figured that out
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These are the numbers on the buttplate.
 
This is the butt with the numbers on it,
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This is the butt with the numbers on it,
This is the top of the bolt
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The byf and 42 indicate it was made by Mauser in Oberndorf in 1942. Someone may have changed the bolt, not uncommon. Why do you care? Shoot it and have fun.
 
Looks like a Russian capture. By "Etching" on the bolt, you mean the serial number electropenciled?

You overpaid by a couple hundred bucks.
 
"X" on the receiver is another clue that it is a Russian capture, but it is a nice looking one. I agree that you probably over paid by at least several hundred, but I'd enjoy it, and definitely shoot it.
 
I just want to know if its an Authentic Mauser. I've always wanted to own a German Mauser. Not one from any of its satellite states during WW2. Also, What about the bolt why is it not bent like most Kar98s?
 
Yes, it is an authentic Mauser, as mentioned above it was made by Mauser in Oberndorf Germany in 1942. It was captured by the Soviets after the war, and refurbished, at least once, post war and put in long term storage.

Signs of Russian capture are no numbers matching on the stock metal, the bolt force matched with the rifle serial number electropenciled, and the serial number stamped in the side of the stock. Many have the Nazi markings defaced, some don't. Many but not all also have the crossed rifles Soviet property stamp, which looks like an "X".

I missed the straight bolt, the answer is quite simply, it is the wrong bolt for the rifle. It may have been put there by the Soviets.

The Russians didn't bother to keep the parts straight, when putting them back together after refurbishing, they grabbed one of each part off a pile and slapped them together. If your bolt has the electropenciled number that matches the rifle, then it was most likely installed by them. If it is unmarked, there is no telling. Someone may have lost the original bolt, and that what they got to replace it.

If it is not electropenciled, then you should have the headspace checked.
 
The code "byf" indicates it was made by Mauser so it is a real as it gets.

It is indeed, a Russian capture and they normally sell for around $450-550
 
Yes, it is an authentic Mauser, as mentioned above it was made by Mauser in Oberndorf Germany in 1942. It was captured by the Soviets after the war, and refurbished, at least once, post war and put in long term storage.

Signs of Russian capture are no numbers matching on the stock metal, the bolt force matched with the rifle serial number electropenciled, and the serial number stamped in the side of the stock. Many have the Nazi markings defaced, some don't. Many but not all also have the crossed rifles Soviet property stamp, which looks like an "X".

I missed the straight bolt, the answer is quite simply, it is the wrong bolt for the rifle. It may have been put there by the Soviets.

The Russians didn't bother to keep the parts straight, when putting them back together after refurbishing, they grabbed one of each part off a pile and slapped them together. If your bolt has the electropenciled number that matches the rifle, then it was most likely installed by them. If it is unmarked, there is no telling. Someone may have lost the original bolt, and that what they got to replace it.

If it is not electropenciled, then you should have the headspace checked.
Click to expand...

This is what the electropencilling looks like.
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The bolt is electropenciled, you can see it right on the top of the bolt when its closed I didn't add the picture., where the bent bolt should be the numbers 1451 are etched in just barely. I would rather have a bent bolt. Though this is like finding a needle in a haystack, is there a way to find the matching bolt for it?
 
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While it is theoretically possible to find the original bolt, it is extremely unlikely. Finding a needle in a haystack would probably be a lot easier.

You would be looking for one specific needle out of ~14,600,000 needles, and the haystack would be the entire world.

Finding a correct bent bolt is a lot easier, you can try Numrich, Sarco, Springfield Sporters, Ebay, or even gun shows.

This is what one of my Russian captures looks like:

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It is odd that the floorplate is marked like that, none of mine have ever been marked that way, the Russians didn't care about numbers on any other part. Since the number on your bolt doesn't match the rifle, you really should have the headspace checked before you fire it.
 
While it is theoretically possible to find the original bolt, it is extremely unlikely. Finding a needle in a haystack would probably be a lot easier.

You would be looking for one specific needle out of ~14,600,000 needles, and the haystack would be the entire world.

Finding a correct bent bolt is a lot easier, you can try Numrich, Sarco, Springfield Sporters, Ebay, or even gun shows.

This is what one of my Russian captures looks like:



It is odd that the floorplate is marked like that, none of mine have ever been marked that way, the Russians didn't care about numbers on any other part. Since the number on your bolt doesn't match the rifle, you really should have the headspace checked before you fire it.
Click to expand...

I just got my ammo today, I put a round in the barrel to see if it would fit and closed the bolt. After I did I tried to turn the bolt shut . It took some elbow grease to turn it. The bolt fully closed all the way without any problems and I put the round in the barrel by hand to make sure it was the right size. Its a pretty damn old gun.
 
Loading a Mauser 98 that way if really hard on the extractor.

They are designed to load from the magazine, and the rim comes up under the extractor from the bottom. on edit: rather than you trying to force the extractor to bend out to clear the rim. Try it again that way.

Make sure the safety is in the middle position, that locks the firing pin back but allows the bolt to cycle.

You can do a really quick and dirty headspace check against your ammo using and some scotch tape. Cut a small layer of tape and place it on the head of the round and chamber it. Add another one and try again, and keep going until the bolt won't close.

I just did this with a rifle that will not close on a NOGO gauge, using two types of surplus ammo, Czech and Romanian, one took 2 pieces and the other took 3.

GO: 1.8743
NOGO: 1.8803
Field: 1.8843

Difference between a minimum chamber (The GO Gauge) and a Maximum chamber (the Field) is .01".

A piece of Scotch tape is a hair over .002" thick. You should confirm that yours is the same as mine, but if the ammo is minimum spec, if it takes 4 pieces or less before the bolt won't close, it is most likely within spec. On edit: This is not a replacement for proper headspace gauges, but can give you a feel for the condition of the rifle.

Please note, I am not saying if your rifle passes this test that it is safe to shoot, that is something you need to decide for your self. There is always risk, and you need to decide what your acceptable level of risk is.
 
You need to find a gunsmith with a set of gauges, esp. since your bolt is not original to the rifle.
Proper headspace is critical, a local gunsmith should be able to check the headspace for you. Go-No go headspace gauges are also available from companies like Brownell's.

Basically headspace is the distance between the end of the closed bolt and the barrel. Too much headspace.....Kaboom can be the result. Too little headspace? Bolt won't close on a properly loaded round. Neither is acceptable.

Have it checked prior to shooting the rifle.
 
Took some extra Pics

You're definitely right about the headspace. I didn't use the scotchtape. I took pictures of the bolt after it was closed with ammo and without ammo. Yes I had 4 cartridges in the magazine to see, but even if after firing one and it jammed like that it wouldnt make a difference.


This is the rifle after I chambered a round, I put no force on it, I left it like it was
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Look inbetween the bolt and the action itself and you see maybe 1-2mm of space free here, This is with a round chambered.
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This final picture is the bolt in the same position, closed and with no ammo in the chamber.
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I do live in the Kansas City area, I'll look around tomorrow, so I there is definitely no shortage of Gun shop, gunsmiths on hand. I wont be firing it anytime soon. I haven't cleaned it at all, so that could also be a contributing factor. As suggested before. I will go and make some calls to the gunsmiths for sure. Any other information you guys can give me?

Oh I must add that the wood in front of the sights wiggles SLIGHTLY. And the bayonet lug looks just like it came off the factory almost like it was made from CAD

Here ya go

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You are looking at the wrong end of the bolt. The bolt handle tells you nothing.

Headspace on that rifle is measured between the bolt face and a datum point on the shoulder in the chamber, and can only be measured from the inside.
 
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