Is Midway incorrect about their Uberti Cattleman '73 peacemaker Blk Pwdr version?

B

Bill Akins

New member
Check out this link at Midway for the Uberti 1873 Cattleman Blackpowder model.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/13...weekly-_-hotbuy-_-uberti_cattleman-_-20160413

The ad says:

"Features

Steel frame
Made just like the original
Single action without the need for cartridges
The Uberti 1873 Cattleman Blackpowder model is manufactured by Uberti just like the standard cartridge 1873 Cattleman revolvers. It features a steel frame and is chambered in .44 caliber. It is a great option for people who want the look of the 1873 Single Action without needing to use cartridge ammunition. This 44 caliber percussion revolver has all the features a cartridge Colt Single Action Army revolver, but with a removable blackpowder cylinder. Authentic color case hardened steel frame, fluted cylinder, fixed sights and 1-piece walnut grips."

Unless Uberti has started changing their design on these, it was my understanding from reading many online posts and seeing pics of the differences,.....that the hammer was offset on these models so that it is practically impossible to use a cartridge cylinder in them. If that is still so, then Midway has it wrong and it is NOT:.... "Made just like the original" nor:..."The Uberti 1873 Cattleman Blackpowder model is manufactured by Uberti just like the standard cartridge 1873 Cattleman revolvers."

Which is it? Is Midway wrong or did Uberti start making their black powder '73 peacemakers to where the hammer is no longer offset so they will work with a standard (not a conversion cylinder) factory cartridge cylinder too?




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Lol "pretty dang close" is right Hawg. The hammers being offset so they cannot use standard, factory (not conversion) cartridge cylinders,....was my long time understanding too Hawg. I just called Midway about it and they said they were going by the info sent to them by Uberti. I explained to the lady that they may have upset customers who were expecting to be able to swap out factory cartridge cylinders and wouldn't be happy to find out the ad is incorrect. She gave me a number to Uberti that does not work. Going to look up Uberti's U.S. number and call it now. Will let y'all know what I find out.


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After clicking on "Contact Us" at the Uberti site, I found out that the Uberti '73 peacemaker black powder models are imported by Stoeger who supplies them to Midway.

Stoeger Industries
Attn.: Service Department
901 Eighth Street
Pocomoke, MD 21851
Phone: (301) 283-6981

I called Stoeger and spoke with the Gentleman there and told him how Midway's ad says several times that they are made just like the cartridge models. He agreed that was incorrect and confirmed they are still made with an offset hammer that will not work with a factory cartridge cylinder. He said he would notify the rep who supplies Midway to get that corrected. I wasn't trying to be anal about Midway being incorrect on this, I was hoping against hope that Uberti had changed the design so factory cartridge cylinders could be used in them. Unfortunately, that was not the case.



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The hammers are "in the middle" just like they're supposed to be. Everything about them is basically a Cattleman except the off set "firing pin" and off center location of the nipples.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
 
OK, I'm confused......

If the hammers are 'in the middle' then where is the offset? Are nipples and hammer centered left to right, but in a different position vertically?

There is a firing pin on a nipple gun?

More clarification please. Surely I'm not the only one with questions. :confused:

If the Europeans were worried about these being used with a cartridge I guess that an offset to prevent using a cartridge cylinder would make sense. 44 Dave may be right about the intended market.
 
There is a hammer projection kind of like a Remington's only offset to one side of the hammer.

I don't know about the European market but they make it possible for an American Commoner to bypass the FFL circuit and still get something that looks like a SAA.
 
How do you....

fire a percussion cap on a nipple, with a hammer that has a projection, such as those used on center fire cartridges? :confused:
 
Thanks Hawg!

Yap, the "firing pin" is off center and the nips are as well (duh!! Lol) the nipples screw into the right side of the chamber. Otherwise, it's just like a Cattleman (Uberti's version) the ASM and I think Pietta made/makes one as well. I also agree that they were (for the most part) for the European market (as I said above).
Since the Uberti's is basically a Cattleman, you can tune one to "El Patron" specs and have a fine shooter!!! (Actually, you can tune an ASM/ others the same way.)

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
 
What I'm wondering, is if someone milled out the frame's hammer/firing pin window to where a replacement cartridge hammer would line up with a cartridge cylinder's chambers, would it work? Or are the bolt cuts in the BP cylinder and the position of the bolt in the frame different to where you couldn't time it with a cartridge cylinder?




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You could but you would have to weld up the hole and install a firing pin bushing. If you mill it and leave it as is the hole will be so big it will automatically deprime the cases for you.
 
Wondering if the recoil shield has that raised ring of the open tops or the flat surface of the cartridge revolvers.
 
Hawg wrote: "You could but you would have to weld up the hole and install a firing pin bushing. If you mill it and leave it as is the hole will be so big it will automatically deprime the cases for you."
Click to expand...

Yes, that's right. Of course! Duh, I should have caught that. Slipped right by me. Lol.

Considering all that work, it's not worth the trouble when a cartridge version can be had at the same price. Too bad though. It appeared to be so close to being able to be converted by swapping out the hammer and drilling the frame window straight for the replacement hammer, but since the frame is already milled at an offset for the percussion hammer's nose to match the offset nipples, drilling it straight would make the frame to hammer window so big the gas pressure would blow the primers out of the cases towards the hammer, just as Hawg described above.

Which makes me wonder if the primers would cock the hammer for you? Even if it did, the primer might fall down into the workings of gun and jam like an 1851 or 1860's Colt percussion caps sometimes do if you don't cock them with the barrel up. I'm still fascinated with the possibilities of using primer setback (or percussion cap blowback) to operate an action like Pedersen and Garand and others worked on so long ago but was never adopted by our military. No gas cylinder or tube, no piston, less weight. It works and makes for much less moving parts on a semi auto. Only problem is the action is dependent on the cartridge's loading always being the same so the primer will set back reliably the same each time. I think that's why the military lost interest in the system if I recall correctly. Too dependent/finicky on cartridge powder loads being consistent from shot to shot. Still....the system has possibilities that have never been used outside of not really unsuccessful experiments in the Pedersen and Garand era. Just because the military didn't adopt it doesn't mean such a system wouldn't have a civilian application. But that's all academic and really off topic. I only mention it because Hawg's mention of primers flying out reminded me of primer setback experimental operating systems.


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Several years ago, I had one of these revolvers and tried a conversion. It's a simple matter to replace the offset firing pin with a centerfire one, and the cylinders aren't timed differently. To make it work properly, the offset hole in the recoil shield has to either be welded up and redrilled, or a bushing installed. I simply egged the side of the hole out a bit so the centerfire firing pin would go through and hit the primer. But, as previously mentioned, this creates a problem of the primers actually being blown back through the hole. This is bad enough, from a safety standpoint, but it also has a secondary problem that no one has mentioned yet - the gases blown back out of the case and through the recoil shield are of sufficient pressure and velocity to blow the hammer back and turn the cylinder, and it will keep firing as long as you keep the trigger pulled. Having become accustomed to not being behind bars and not wanting to put my welding and/or machining skills to the test, I reinstalled the offset black powder firing pin and original cylinder and continued to shoot it as designed until I sold it some years ago.

 
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