Is Lyman WRONG on 44 magnum?

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PolarFBear

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Preparing to load some 44 Magnums with wheel weight cast 207 grain flat points. These were cast in a Lee mold as 200 grains but weigh a little heavy. I like to reference several "recipes" before I load. Lyman's 50th book shows starting load of 9.3 grains of W231 with a MAX of 12.8 grains. This is a long way from the starting loads from Lee and Hogdon. Lee and Hogdon start at 5.8 grains with a maximum of only 7.4. I don't want to blow a gun nor have to "knock down" a group of overcharged rounds. Also W231 doesn't put much powder in the case. I settled on a start load of 6.0 grains. I am not looking for boomers just satisfying magnum rounds. I experimented, it took three pulls of W231 to even see the powder! I had a double charge in a 38 Special, once! Damaged the cylinder in a S&W 640. Don't EVER want a repeat. ADVICE PLEASE.
 
You've made an observation most long term reloaders have been aware of for a very long time......all loading manuals don't agree. Sometimes by amounts that we question. However, using different test methodologies, equipment, etc. I believe each one has found safe loads for the calibers tested. Most load data for handguns has been tamed down quite a bit since Elmer Keith and others started working up magnum loads for handguns. I don't believe that the observation you've made is a mistake, and I don't believe that any of those loads are unsafe in a modern brand name handgun. I do believe that there are better choices of powder to be made for loading 44mag loads than W231, which happens to be a powder I use a lot of. I just don't use it in this caliber for several reasons: it hasn't produced the most accurate loads, it's somewhat anemic compared to many other powders, and its load density is too sparse. If you want to load some light 44mag loads try using a powder that at least fills more than the bottom of the case and is less susceptible to extreme load variations due to small changes in grains of powder. If you do want to use W231, the loads you listed are safe. Just watch for double charges at the higher end of the scale.
 
Lyman loads don't apply to wheel weight softness, especially for 44 Magnum. The other manuals are going for lighter loads to match least common denominator bullet hardness.

Wheel Weights - 9 BHN
10:1 - 11.5 BHN
Lyman #2 - 15 BHN
Linotype - 22 BHN

Lyman shows loads for the latter three but none for wheel weights in 44 Magnum.

Where Lyman shows best results on 200-210 with W231, that refers to Linotype bullets. That seems unnecessarily hard to me at the given velocity. However, my current bullets are Lasercast that are even harder. I am not planning to reorder.
 
Hodgon's data lists the 5.8 grains as having 10,800 CUP and 7.4 grains 16,700 CUP. That's no where near Magnum level pressures. The 5.4 grain load would be a light .44 special load.
 
I've loaded 44 Magnums with fast powders, Bullseye and W231, when I first started loading them. I now use nothing slower than Unique and Universal, much better performance that way. Couple of thoughts; "when in doubt, load low". You would be safe with the lowest listed starting loads, but in this case the listed loads seem to be 44 Special levels. Normally I like to use bullet manufacturer's data first, then powder manufacturer's data. In this case I'd try starting loads for a cast bullet from the Lyman manual...
 
Hogdon starts at 7.5 grains of 231 with a maximum of 11.7 for a jacketed 210 grain(close enough. Closer than 200 too.) bullet. The 5.8 is for a cast 200 grain. Check your Lyman book for cast or jacketed.
Kind of suspect your wheel weights might be a tick contaminated. Very much a WHAG though.
However, like NoSecondBest says, manuals vary.
 
I have loaded a lot of 44 magnum with 231/HP-38, and it is one of the powders that only starts to burn clean at a more elevated pressure level. I load a 265 gr SWC-GC with 9.1 gr of HP-38, and in working up the load it only started to shoot clean at around 8.5 grains. Lighter loads left a lot of soot in the barrel and chambers. So, I can easily see that with the much lighter 200 gr bullet the charge would need to be higher to burn cleanly. The 9.3 gr charge sounds about right for a starting load to me, based on my experience.
 
Is Lyman WRONG on 44 magnum?
Click to expand...

No...what Lyman is giving you are loads for magnum ammo in .44 mag with lead bullets. Hodgdon is giving you cowboy type loads for lead. Neither is wrong, just different intended purposes and velocities. Lee doesn't develop and test their load recipes, only copies published data from others. Apparently in this instance they copied Hodgdon.

If you want a powder that fills the case and doesn't hurt when the trigger is pulled, I suggest trying IMR4227. You cannot get enough of it in a .44 mag case to be unsafe, so a double charge is impossible. While it burns a tad dirty at the lower end of it's recipes, at the upper end, it's very accurate. It's a great powder for .44 mag, altho it cost more to shoot than W231. W231 in .44 mag, even under a lead bullet will have a hard time producing legitimate magnum ammo, even tho it will produce more pressure than other powders.
 
Also keep in mind the numbers in a manual are often the figures from a particular combination of bullets, brass, powder and primer on a specific day in a single firearm or test barrel.

It doesn't mean the will get the same results if any one of those things changed.
 
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