Is Keyes the man?

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M

Memphis

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Keyes is doing some great talk. Seems to me he the best Republican gun rights candidate. He comes right out for limited gov, abolishing the IRS, personal responsibility. He's a great orator too. People tell me he's unelectable. I'm not so sure he won't still get my 'protest vote'.
No I'm not campaigning for him... don't want a big ugly debate, just
wondering what the pulse is on him here.
 
We love him. He's one of the greatest men to ever run for office--and he actually makes that mean something. I will support him until the bitter (dare I say other than bitter?) end.
 
I like and will vote for him, also. Although the media make an effort to ignore him they all admit, as quietly as possible, that he makes the best showing at the debates. He seems firm and confident in his ideas and rarely gets backed into a corner on anything.

Yep, I think he is the man.
 
I agree that Keyes is the man as well, I will definitly vote for him no matter what anyone tells me about how electable he is.

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"Freedom has always existed in a very percurious balance. And when buildings stop blowing up, people’s priorities tend to change..." Enemy of the State
 
A vote for Keyes is a nice protest vote.

However, if it looked like in a primary that
a vote for Keyes lets one of those two
jackasses McCain and Forbes to win, I will
go for my first choice Bush.

I heard him on Fox news do a good job of
telling the dimwit newscaster why his support
of TX CHL is totally different from Clinton/Gore/Bradley registration proposals.
 
Yes, I'll vote for him in the primary. Bush will probably be the next prez (not the best choice). We should push him hard for VP or at least a very important position.
Maybe Mr Keyes can work toward 2004, especially if the Repubs don't do well. I do like the man.

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From my cold dead hands.
 
I think that this is an important point, that if it looks like W (a moderate) will end up getting the nod, then we need to start NOW laying in heavy pressure to make Keyes the number two man as the ONLY way to bring all of those dissaffected conservatives back into the fold and avoid a repeat of the last two elections. I have a sinking suspicion that it will be Lunatic Lizzy that gets to be W's right-hand-half-man-half-woman. She is a liberal monster that would give even someone like me cause to vote for "That Third Party That Y'all Like" despite its moral bankruptcy and many beliefs that conflict with mine.
 
I note that today in the local socialist-statist rag (The Atlanta Urinal and Constipation), one of the editorial page writers was attempting to marginalize Keyes by making him out to be a candidate for the religious right. Gee, I'm not really religious, and I think the guy's great.

I guess that's what happens if you show a knowledge of the Constitution and limited Federal government. The statist media folks don't like to hear that!

He gets my vote in the primary. Keyes for Veep? Keyes for Supreme Court Justice?

JimR

[This message has been edited by JimR (edited January 30, 2000).]
 
Tch, tch. You political neophytes believe as I used to believe until I was
educated by the Republicans.

1. The BEST Presidential candidate would be a Libertarian. But that’s not
viable because:

- Libertarians believe in the Second Amendment.

- Libertarians believe the Drug War is like Prohibition. Neither worked as
promised. Both caused more crime, violence, injuries, and deaths than did
what was outlawed. Both aided the creation and development of organized
crime and made the U.S. more dangerous than what was outlawed.

- The U.S. was smart enough to repeal Prohibition, but that’s different
because alcohol is not habit forming (?) or dangerous (?).

- Because the Libertarians would give us what we say we want, we dare
not vote for them because that would be a vote for Gore.

2. So we must turn to the “viable” Party - The Republicans. We must
disregard their promises to restrict our Right to Keep and Bear Arms
because they are not as bad as the Democrats who want to restrict our
Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Therefore (?) the Republicans are viable.

- Of the Republicans, only Dr. Alan Keyes believes in the Second
Amendment. But he is not viable because he is a Christian, has moral
values, and believes abortion is killing something alive. So we are
permitted to vote for Keyes in the primary but must NOT dare hope he
could be a Presidential contender because a vote for Keyes is a vote for
Gore!

- We must vote for Bush because:
-- Bush has more money than any other Presidential candidate.
-- Bush is the media darling.
-- Bush has all his Daddy’s friends behind him.
-- Bush pushes for gun control but not as severely as Gore. Therefore, by
giving up our Rights slowly, we can blame that loss on the government
rather than upon our votes - because voting for anyone other than Bush is
a vote for Gore.


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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
No doubt Keyes is the best man in the running, but very doubtful he'll get the nod. I think he's too outspoken to be a running mate also. The man who gets the nod (probably W) will not want a V.P. that will outshine him. It looks again like we will be left with the lesser of the evils choice again. IMHO a november vote for the 3rd party guy, or staying home saying the hell with it, is just going to elect AlGore. That's how WJC did it, twice. It is a shame that we can't get the best guy in there, lets just make sure we don't put the WORST guy in there, again. :(

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bullet placement is gun control
 
Dennis,

Although I have not met you in person, I feel as though I know you, a little. You sound in your writing about political realism to be a cantankerous, stubborn, one-dimensional old goat. An old goat I must add that is principled, consistent, well reasoned, and thoroughly admirable. I wish that I had your eloquence and could turn a phrase as well.

Thank you for presenting you ideas so well.

I will not allow the government of an elected person to say that _I voted_ to allow them to continue to ignore our rights.

My vote will also be for the best person in the race. Not for the least bad person.

Thanks again,

Noel
 
I have liked the ideas of Alan Keyes for a long time. This campaign is my first opportunity to hear him explain so much of what he believes. And doesn't he do it well?
I haven't heard him dodge a question or heminhaw an answer. We need him.

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Dennis, [Keyes] "believes abortion is killing something alive." I can throw a sack of kittens into the river and destroy something "alive". The reality is I can go to jail for this act in some places, yet as a "law abiding citizen", I am forced to help finance atrocities on living HUMANS. I have no desire to open the Big-Can-O-Worms that could potentially divide us. I only respond to point out that the formal Libertarian solution is only to end federally financed abortion. Being a patient man, I see this as a start to the end of our country's moral decline, but I also sympathise with those who are not so patient in the method. The moral decline that Keyes speaks is not a distaste for individual freedom, but an outrage that theft, deception, cynicism, and disregard for our fellow citizen is portrayed as good for our country. The Libertarian party must be prepared to take the "risk" of including those who maintain a spiritual element in their politics if they are to be truly "viable".
 
Dennis, Dennis, Dennis...there ya go again...lol.....(hey Ive missed these..lol).

Tch, tch. You political neophytes believe as I used to believe until I was
educated by the Republicans.
1. The BEST Presidential candidate would be a Libertarian. But that’s not
viable because:

- Libertarians believe in the Second Amendment.

- Libertarians believe the Drug War is like Prohibition. Neither worked as
promised. Both caused more crime, violence, injuries, and deaths than did
what was outlawed. Both aided the creation and development of organized
crime and made the U.S. more dangerous than what was outlawed.

- The U.S. was smart enough to repeal Prohibition, but that’s different
because alcohol is not habit forming (?) or dangerous (?).

- Because the Libertarians would give us what we say we want, we dare
not vote for them because that would be a vote for Gore.
----------absolute nonsense, the libertarians have had 20years to become a viable party or if you prefer an electable party, and have not in all that time won one national seat as a libertarian, Is that not correct? They have great rhetoric but no track record after all those years, the only track record is from ron Paul--to get elected were he could do something he had to run as a republican. One man is not going to get it done with out a supporting cast....this isnt hollywood.

2. So we must turn to the “viable” Party - The Republicans. We must
disregard their promises to restrict our Right to Keep and Bear Arms
because they are not as bad as the Democrats who want to restrict our
Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Therefore (?) the Republicans are viable.
................No I dont think we disregard anything, when we can we replace the bums with pro-2nd people be that libertarians or not, dosent matter to me. And some of the bums are as bad or worse then democrats, the sad reality is that in one election we will not change 40+ years of politics, we can keep making changes as we go along--there's no gurantees we are gonna win, we have to keep fighting, this all or nothing approach in reality gives the democrats the win they want. Can you imagine a better strategy then to divide and conquer your enemies, been done for thousands of years, its been done to us too. The reason the republican vote might be the only workable option we have att is because they can be elected in numbers large enuf that if they can be energized they can hopefully make a difference,---not a good solution, but better imo then surrendering, and claiming "i voted my counscience, therefore I have no responsibility", "if only the americans would see how great we are and elect us"...We celebrate the sacrafices of the "writer's" of the "Constitution" we talk in admiration of the sacrafices they made and what they accomplished. I look at this sorry, sorry situation we find ourselves in and wonder if we have the heart to sacrafice and put these bums back in charge. Its not rewarding them, its givings us an opportunity to possibly make changes that favor us.


- Of the Republicans, only Dr. Alan Keyes believes in the Second
Amendment. But he is not viable because he is a Christian, has moral
values, and believes abortion is killing something alive. So we are
permitted to vote for Keyes in the primaryt but must NOT dare hope he
could be a Presidential contender because a vote for Keyes is a vote for
Gore!
..............I think keyes is the best canidate for the constitution, for america....but that is why we have elections, not every one thinks so. Since when has any one not permitted you to vote for who you want?.....keyes as a presidential contender, there is no body better on the national scene imo, but he still has to win the primary to be the front runner, who ever wins that gets the nod eh? When bush sr. lost to clinton, some of the votes went to the 3rd party canidate, another large chunk were from women---enuf chunks and we do get gore. Do really want at least 4 more years of gore? Do you really want gore appointing the supreme ct judges which might be our best chance at winning this damn war?


- We must vote for Bush because:
-- Bush has more money than any other Presidential candidate.
-- Bush is the media darling.
-- Bush has all his Daddy’s friends behind him.
-- Bush pushes for gun control but not as severely as Gore. Therefore, by
giving up our Rights slowly, we can blame that loss on the government
rather than upon our votes - because voting for anyone other than Bush is
a vote for Gore.
.............Who is for giving up our rights even slowly, I believe we all want to fight for them, we just dont want to sacrafice for them. It would seem that what the "libertarian" view is vote for us, and when we lose we will have done the right thing even though we will be further behind the 8-ball, we will have lost a possible opportunity, of course if your belief is that an internal war is the way to go vote libertarian. Votes for or against or not at all have consequences.
In the presidential election not the primary there will be two possible roads, because the 3rd partys are not strong enuf to win outright and are not supported from within the govt. to any extent. so you are right if you vote for anyone in the final vote other than the front runner for the republican party you will help gore.

I dont know if republicans are going to retain the congress or even win the presidency.....and no there not perfect, but they or the democrats are going to be the ones drafting legislation....not the 3rd parties.....
..................with respect my friend, fubsy.
 
Noel,

Thank you. I can find folks willing to stand in line to agree with your first
description of me, but few who agree with the second! :D
-------

G-Freeman,

Yeah, I know I expressed myself poorly there. I was trying to avoid the
abortion controversy because it weakens our efforts to secure our RKBA.

Thank you for the clarification of the Libertarian view pertaining to
abortion - i.e. cut off federal financing for abortion.

I don’t know that the Libertarians exclude anyone of any faith. However,
many people of faith (or *no* faith) refuse to work for a common goal with
people of differing beliefs. Such parochialism divides and weakens us.

I have very strong beliefs on many issues. However, those beliefs are not
relevant to our goal of restoring Constitutional Law in America.

If we lose our Second Amendment Rights, the loss of other Rights is
guaranteed. Our differing views will become irrelevant as the paternalistic
elitists will enforce their decisions upon us all.

Therefore, let’s restore the Second Amendment. Then we can restore the
Constitution, re-implement Jury Nullification, rejuvenate our educational
institutions, bring common sense to our international relations, and debate
our opinions on host of varied subjects.

Hopefully, somewhere along the way, we may learn how to follow our own
beliefs without degrading or infringing upon the differing beliefs and
choices of our fellow Americans.

First things first! We must restore the Second Amendment - or we will
lose everything.

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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
I will vote for Keys in the primary. When he finished third in Iowa I knew they would start to go after him as a "right wing candidate of the religious right wing of the right wing right wingers" ad nauseum. that has begun.

In the mean time, "left wing" is not in the vernacular of the press.

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Gun Control: The proposition that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own panty hose, is more acceptable than allowing that same woman to defend herself with a firearm.
 
Right on the money, Fusby.

Dennis, your admirable idealism is cut straight out of the Mutius Scaevola kind of cloth; you believe that one man and one man's ideals can still make a difference in this un-idealistic political world.

This is probably the focus of our disagreement.

Given the premise that the pure, unadulterated "libertarian" ideas (at least, those pertaining to the role of Government) would be the closest to our Founding Fathers', why is it that the Libertarian party makes up only a neglegible part of our political debate?

Because of the culture of Government dependancy that, since FDR, so many Americans have wilfully and lazily espoused.
Just turn on your set at any given time during the day, and see the endless parade of folks who demand freebies from Big Brother as if these very freebies were the "God-given rights" of which our Fathers spoke. And, sadly but truly, the number of these freeloaders is growing.

People start demanding and expecting free health care, college vouchers and retirement plans as if they were owed to them by the Constitution.

Now the big question:

Do you really think that you or I, or even all the NRA, SAF, CCRKBA and Libertarians combined could stem this tide like this, point-blank, in November of 2000? And in there lies the answer as to why pure Libertarians don't have a hope in an era when the secondary missiles of a shattered, post-1980s Communism are still dangerously flying in our cultural and political debate.

Parties or people can be outvoted in a fluky election, but culture cannot - the culture re-emerges and inveriably re-sets things back to "normal".

So, even if, by a fluke, the Libertarians should win (not that I believe that, a million to one), our culture of Government dependency will soon erase that victory. Unless you believe that culture can be legislated from Washington (which I'm sure you don't, as a true Libertarian), first we have to deliver a cultural blow to this dependency mentality, then, we may have a hope at the booths. It's culture that drives politics, not vice-versa.

In the meantime, I believe that we should do our best to fight an idealistic cultural battle in our livingrooms and community and a machiavellian political one at the booths - that's why I will vote Republican. This way we may prepare the cultural road for a better America while defeating shameless socialism and give our many causes a fighting chance. Remember, Dennis, there are 270,000,000 Americans. How many of them do you honestly believe would give up their free meal-ticket in order to advance some free, idealistic principle? Especially in the cultural and political reality of January, 2000?


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If you are younger than 20 and not a Liberal, you have no heart.

If you are older than 20 and STILL a Liberal, you have no brain.
 
Hey, Fubsy! Welcome!

I believe you’re right. I believe Bush will beat Keyes in the primary
because Dr. Alan Keyes stands for American values - the Republocrats
*dare not permit* Keyes to win.

Later this year America probably will rid itself of a Socialist Republocrat
(Clinton) and elect a liberal Republocrat (Bush) to take our rights away!
And the Republocrat oligarchy will be assured of the Presidency for another
four years.

But, if you vote in the Republican primary, please vote for Dr. Alan Keyes!
This is the only chance you Republicans have to show you do not buy the
gun control promises of G.W. Bush! If you support Bush in the primary, it
will only encourage more outrageous attacks against our Bill of Rights.

Please, support Dr. Alan Keyes.

Fubsy, let’s not hi-jack Memphis’ thread on Keyes. Please check out the
“Libertarians on the March” thread. (See you there, buddy! ;) )
-----

Hey, Rigby! Good to see you! You're next (if I can find some of my old notes ;) ).

(God, it's great being an American and being on TFL!!)


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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
The way I see it Keyes will not be president. However, a good showing in the primaries just might land him the VP spot.
I'm voting for him in the primary and praying.

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Strength is the outcome of need; security sets a premium on feebleness. H.G. Wells The Time Machine
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Grayfox:

...a good showing in the primaries just might land him the VP spot. I'm voting for him in the primary and praying.[/quote]



I can't help but wonder if he's [cringe] "viable" [/cringe] for the VP slot. I agree with others that he would outshine Bush. I hate to think that Bush will pick Liddy Dole, but it is very probable. The only way out of this mess of a possibility is to have Keyes WIN the Republican nomination. :)



He's getting my vote. Check him out at http://www.keyes2000.org



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RKBA!

"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4
Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website
 
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