Is it worth getting an FFL?

J

Joe Portale

New member
Hello the group,

This question is probably pretty niave, but here I go.

I have been considering applying for a FFL to run a part time business out of my home. Is the ATF that hard to deal with? And, do the powers that be frown on such a business running from a private residence.

thanks in advance.

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Joe Portale
Sonoran Sidewinder
Tucson, Arizina territory
 
Hello, the member. :)

Frankly, I wouldn't bother trying to get an FFL. If you can wade through the paperwork and pay the various fees, taxes, and bribes, you're still #1 on the BATF s-list, simply because they know exactly who and where you are. You screw up once, and it's lights out.

Also, AFAIK, you *must* have a commercial storefront. No selling homebrewed ammo out of the basement.

If you still want to go for it, any local dealer can give you more detailed info.

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A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.
Vote Libertarian - For A Change.
 
Back in the good old days, it was a matter of submitting the application to the BATF, a friendly chat on the phone with a BATF agent from the Seattle office (with some very innocuous questions), and I was up and selling guns from my apartment, but then it got complicated . . . . .

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“The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals. ... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of.” -Alexander Addison, 1789
 
Hi Joe,

You should get an FFL if and only if you are going to establish a true business at a business location.

Not a means of buying wholesale for your buddies.
Not as part of a hobby.
Not as something to do when there is nothing good on TV.

BATF (and the law) consider an FFL a license to do business in firearms, and the key word is business. Current regulations do not allow licensees to work out of their homes or only at gun shows. They must have a business premises with posted business hours (can be evenings only or even weekends only, but must be some hours). The business premises must be in an area zoned for business and all local and state laws must be complied with. This includes any business licenses the state or local law may require, and such things as being registered to collect sales tax. They require certain protections, such as an alarm system and barred doors and windows.

In short, if you want to establish a gun business, get your store fixed up, then apply for your license. If you only want to have a neat hobby, forget it; it is not worth it.

(Coinneach is overly pessimistic; if you play by the rules and keep your nose clean, the BATF will not harass you. If you make straw man sales; if you fudge the books; if you make sales to people you know are crooks and accept aliases; if you sell to your buddies "off the books"; you will be in big trouble.)

Jim
 
Back in the early eighties I got myself a FFL and worked out of my home. Business address was my home address, seperate business phone line, established hours (two evenings per week). Getting the FFL was the easy part. Then I had to get a state business license, a city business license, a state tax number and (in TN) a permit to sell pistols, revolvers and handguns. Then you have to fill out sales tax forms and send the state a check every month.
Next problem was that there are too many established gun shops for people to want to deal with someone working out of their home.
More problems, do you have the working capital to buy inventory? When people can walk into a gun shop and see, touch and handle they sure don't want to trust a stranger to "Special order" a gun and then wait on it to come in.

I struggled with this for two years in the hope that I could build up into a real gun shop. Never happened. I spent too much time doing paper work for the state and waiting for phone calls that never came.

Lesson learned. Unless you have the money and time to commit to a full time business with a real store, all your gonna get it a major pain in the butt.
 
Hi,

Jim, what I was thinking about was rfunning a real operation, but only part time. I have a great day job and wonder if a gun store would ever provide me with the same compensation. I know a couple of people that do have their shop in their house. They sell only by referral and to cops. Both of these guys are in another county. I met one at a cowboy shoot and another is the relative of a friend. One of them is getting long in the tooth and is gearing down for retirement when his current license expires. I thought that it may be possible for me to pick up his trade, he seemed agreeabl to the idea. But like you said, and a call to the ATF, no more home based businesses.

Coinreach, just for the record. If I wanted to sell homebrew ammo out of my basement, a FFL is not required. One could hang a shingle and sell reloading supplies and ammo wihout a FFL. It would just be harder to deal with wholesalers and distributors.

Thaks for the thoughts.



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Joe Portale
Sonoran Sidewinder
Tucson, Arizina territory
 
Joe, I think Gray Fox has it right.

I tried the same thing further back, and gave up. The major problem was not the laws, but that everyone got SGN and wanted me to sell at the same (advertised) price I bought for and eat the shipping, tax, etc. You simply can't make money with a small operation; there is not enough markup in even new guns, let alone used or surplus.

The back breaker was two "gentlemen" I worked with, who expected not only free service but who demanded that every surplus rifle be absolutely perfect in every respect. They nearly drove me crazy with their constant whining and complaining. I finally told one of them to put a K98k, with bayonet fixed, in an appropriate place, and turned in the license and books the next day.

Jim
 
JOE; THE FFL APPLICATION THAT I HAVE CLEARLY STATES THAT YOU DO NEED A FFL TO MANUFACTURE AND SALE AMMUNITION.
HOWEVER YOU DO NOT NEED AN FFL TO BUY OR SALE AMMO, UNLESS YOU IMPORT IT.
ANYWAY GOOD LUCK!

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Joe,
Jim Keenan & Grayfox have it exactly right.
The"good old days" refered to, were prior to 1994. All the mandates came from the Klinton Klan about that time & forced 90% of FFL's out of business. I ran a "Mom & Pop" gun shop until Sick Willie tightened the screws. Everything in my shop(home)was up to code & I could tolerate the papers & proceedures ok until our illustrious El-
President'e decided to eleminate me....& a few thousand other dealers.
See what is happening to firearms MANUFACTURERS now?
All the 4473's of those thousands of "shut down" dealers had to be surrendered to the BATF...Talk about back-door registration!!!!
Gott'a quit,I'm getting too frustrated.
:(

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Ralph in In.
 
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