Is it still possible to get an AR in the PRK (California)?

El Rojo

New member
You know, now that AR's are pretty much illegal, I would like one now. Problem is, it cannot have a pistol grip or flash suppressor. Is there a way to get around this?

I have seen gun shops selling Olympic Arms AR's without the pistol grip attached. Pretty interesting idea. Of course I would not be able to attach the pistol grip in public, but I am sure it takes all of two minutes to attach one.

What are your thoughts and opinions? Should I just forget the AR idea and spend that extra money on more .308 ammo for my M1A and practice with it more? Maybe check out some nicer stocks for the M1A and some scope mounts and quick aquisition optics? Am I just having new gun withdrawals since it has been about a year since I bought a new gun? What turmoil!
 
I think it's over here for ARs since the recent court case said they can be outlawed by name, ie evil features are irrelevant.

If you must have one, get it, and keep it, in AZ or Nevada. Of course check the laws regarding purchase out of state.
 
El Rojo - Sorry bud, it's over. The ARs and AKs are now evil by name, no longer by features. So, I would suggest that you get more ammo for that less evil, less dangerous M1A.

Noban
 
I still want one!

I guess I am just going to have to focus on my M1A since it has a legitimate purpose with its new PRK legal muzzle break. At least my Dillon will be happy. Thanks boys.
 
The weapon you seek is flat out illegal in CA period. If you owned one on or before August 31, 2000, and registered it by December 31, 2000, it is grandfathered to you. You may not sell it in CA, will it, give it away, or otherwise dispose of it unless you render it inoperable, change its illegal configuration so that it no longer qualifies as an AW, or surrender it to your local law enforcement agency for disposition as it sees fit.

If you own an AW and have registered it, DOJ recommends you keep a facsimile copy of your DOJ registration letter in your range bag while shooting at the range. Agents have been instructed to conduct spot checks at various ranges throughout the state to insure compliance.

If you own an unregistered AW and are "apprehended" with same in your possession, you will be subject to immediate arrest and charged with a felony (It might be bargained down to a misdemeanor but don't count on it) and if found guilty fined $500, AW confiscated, and can do possible jail time.

The fact that this law is clearly unconstitutional (federal) matters not to the Democrat legislature or Governor. The state Supreme Court has ruled there is no individual right in the state of CA to own firearms, let alone an AW. Welcome to the PRK!
 
"The only use they have is to kill a large number of people in a
short time,"

Damn! I never thought of that! :eek: Would it be possible to do the same thing with my Ford? Of course, the Ford has another use-getting me stuck in traffic on the freeway. :rolleyes:

I, too, live in PRK and see AR's all the time at the range, but don't own one. I passed up a Saiga .308 last summer and instead bought a Savage 10FP. I do own an ancient Mini 14, but it is not reliable with anything but the Ruger factory magazines, and they're only 5 rounders.
 
I believe that the law reads that, if you can show proof that you owned the AR-15 before the deadline (sales slip, etc.) and are caught with it unregistered, you are charged with a misdemeanor, fined $500 and lose the gun. If you are caught with an unregistered AR-15 that you acquired after the deadline, or don't have proof of prior purchase, or are in possession of more than two unregistered AW's, then you will be charged with a felony, fine and loss of weapon(s).
 
I think it is still possible.

Is the entire AR line abolished? Or is it anything with a pistol grip? I have seen AR's for sale with no pistol grip. They had the full barrel without flash suppressor and have no pistol grip. IT is just flat where the trigger guard is. So what is wrong with that weapon according to SB 23 (assault weapons bill)?
 
Well since Firearms period are now illegal more or less period in Kalifornia GET THE REAL THING from South America. M-16 and AK-47 Full Autos not the semiauto versions.

By insisting on the 2nd Amendment being what the words say (How dare you read the constitution!) YOU are now a rebel and enemy of the state of Kalifornia anyway, quite simular to the Zapatistas in Mexico.

It is the same crime so might as well commit it.

Q. What is the difference between Kalifornia and Cuba?

A. In Cuba they have Electricity!

Ought to eject California from the USA and let it become the third world county it wants to be!



[Edited by Zorro on 01-24-2001 at 03:27 AM]
 
the entire AR series (22lr included) and the entire AK series are now Roberti Roos named banned weapons

a semi auto Mini 14 is not named under Roos and i think avoids registration under SB 23 due to the lack of a pistol grip in the factory configuration.

dZ
 
dZ is correct El Rojo. According to SB23, there is nothing wrong with an AR-15 without a pistol grip as you noted. But it's a two-pronged ban: the other prong is R-R which, as dZ notes, bans ALL AR's and AK's, period. You're out of luck, I'm afraid. Enjoy your M1A.
 
Everyone is right. No more AR & AK in PRK.

Roberti-roos law - bans by specific models.

SB23 - bans by characteristics. ie. a semiauto,centerfire rifle capable of accepting a detachable magazine, plus one of the followong characteristics,.. pistol grip, thumbhole stock, folding/telescoping stock, grenade/flare launcher, flash suppressor, forward pistol grip.

then the last one,... Kasler vs. Lockyer court decision (Aug. 23, 2000) that adds "ALL AR & AK series" rifles are considered assault weapons. If you were able to acquire a rifle (AR/AK series) not on R-R and SB23, before Aug. 23, 2000.... then you have till Jan. 23, 2001 to postmarked and mail your registration (oops, i guess that was yesterday) sorry too late..... :(
 
is there hope? is it an ar?

the name of the company escapes me at the moment (perhaps dpms) that makes a clip fed 5.56x45mm weapon. it looks like a ar with a short forearm and shotgun rails.

its not called an ar and its not semi-auto so its ok to have the mag loading feature...and i think the pistol grip ban also only applies to semi-autos too (how about a folding stock on a pump gun... is it evil too?)

input from the bleachers?
 
9mm Epiphany-

I've seen the pump version topic discussed at AR15.com, somebody mentioned this pump version, but I think it's designation (NAME) puts it on the ban list, although I'm sure you'd be able to talk a local LEO out of busting you for it when you demonstrate it's not a semi.
 
DIRECTIONS FOR USING THIS BOOKLET
For the purposes of this guide, assault weapons are divided into three categories. These are: Category 1 - Penal
Code section 12276 subdivisions (a), (b), (c) (Roberti Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989); Category 2
- Penal Code section 12276 subdivisions (e) and (f) (Kasler v. Lockyer, AK and AR-15 series assault weapons);
and Category 3 - Penal Code section 12276.1 (SB 23 - generic characteristic assault weapons). A combined
listing of Category 1 and Category 2 assault weapons can be found on page 82.

Category 1. The Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989
This was California’s first assault weapons act. Under this act, any firearm on a list specified in Penal Code
section 12276 is considered an assault weapon. Such assault weapons are controlled (i.e., may not be legally
purchased, kept for sale, offered for sale, exposed for sale, given, lent, manufactured, distributed, or imported)
after December 31, 1991, and were required to be registered as assault weapons with the Department of Justice
no later than March 31, 1992. In addition, the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act controlled AK and
AR-15 series assault weapons (Penal Code section 12276, subd (e) and (f) - see Category 2). These assault
weapons are controlled regardless of whether they have Category 3 (Penal Code section 12276.1 - SB 23)
characteristics.

Category 2. AK and AR-15 Series Weapons
The California Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of
1989 in Kasler v. Lockyer. This decision took effect August 16, 2000. Effective August 16, 2000, firearm
models that are variations of the AK or AR-15, with only minor differences from those two models, are assault
weapons under the original Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989. AK and AR-15 series weap-ons
are controlled as of August 16, 2000, and must be registered as assault weapons with the Department of
Justice on or before January 23, 2001. The only alternatives to registration are permanently removing from the
state, rendering permanently inoperable, destroying, or relinquishing the weapon to a law enforcement agency.
These assault weapons are controlled regardless of whether they have Category 3 (Penal Code section 12276.1 -SB
23) characteristics.

Category 3. Generic Characteristics
As of January 1, 2000, Senate Bill 23 (Chapter 129, Statutes of 1999) provides that firearms that have characteristics
falling under any of the categories listed in Penal Code section 12276.1 are also considered to be assault
weapons. These assault weapons are controlled as of January 1, 2000, and must be registered as assault weapons
with the Department of Justice on or before December 31, 2000. As an alternative to registration, these
weapons may be permanently removed from the state, rendered permanently inoperable, destroyed, relinquished
to law enforcement agencies, or have the assault weapon characteristics permanently removed before December
31, 2000.

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf

CATEGORY 1
The Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989
The Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989 was California’s first assault weapons act. The Act is
still in effect and specifically identifies assault weapons by make and model. Assault weapons under this act
include those firearms that are marked as specified in Penal Code section 12276, as well as those makes and
models specified by the Attorney General pursuant to Penal Code section 12276.5. As of October 2000, the
Attorney General has not utilized the add-on provisions of Penal Code section 12276.5 subdivisions (a)-(f).
Except as otherwise noted, firearms described in this publication have been physically identified as assault
weapons by their markings. Those markings generally, but not always, include both the name or trademark of
the manufacturer and the model name or number of the firearm. Each description includes identification mark-ings
and an indication of where those markings, if any, are found on the firearm.
Caution must be used in identifying Roberti-Roos assault weapons because of the ease in which their appear-ance
may be altered with attachments or different types of stocks; however, removing a characteristic does not
change a firearm’s status as an assault weapon. A firearm specified in Penal Code section 12276 by make and
model but which does not match the picture included in this publication is a controlled assault weapon. If in
doubt about the identity of a particular firearm, or if identifying marks have been removed or altered, please
consult the Department of Justice Firearms Division at (916) 227-3703.

CATEGORY 2
AK and AR-15 Series Weapons (Kasler v. Lockyer)
This California Supreme Court decision took effect on August 16, 2000. Under this decision, any firearm of
minor variation of the AK or AR-15 type (i.e., series weapon), regardless of the manufacturer, is a Category 2
(Kasler v. Lockyer) assault weapon under the original Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989.
All AK and AR-15 series weapons had to be possessed before August 16, 2000 and must be registered on
or before January 23, 2001. The Department of Justice is required to identify these series weapons and
includes in this publication a listing of identified AK and AR-15 series weapons.
It is important to note that removal of a firearm’s characteristics does not affect its status as a Category
2 assault weapon. A Category 2 assault weapon is still an assault weapon even if it has no Category 3
(SB 23 - generic characteristics) features.
Category 2 assault weapons may be of any caliber, including .22 caliber rimfire.

AR-15 Series Weapons
The following pages show markings and illustrations of AR-15 series weapons. The Colt AR-15 was the
only AR-15 series weapon to be originally identified as an assault weapon under the Roberti-Roos Assault
Weapons Control Act of 1989, and was required to be registered on or before March 31, 1992. With the
exception of the Colt AR-15, all of the listed AR-15 series weapons were subsequently identified by the
Department of Justice as Category 2 assault weapons as a result of the Kasler v. Lockyer California Supreme
Court ruling effective August 16, 2000. Category 2 (Kasler v. Lockyer) weapons were required to be
purchased on or before August 16, 2000 and registered as assault weapons on or before January 23, 2001.
The markings on these firearms usually appear on the left side of the lower receiver.
Caliber has no bearing on a weapon’s status as a series weapon and should be disregarded when making an
identification. For example, upper receiver conversion kits are available to convert almost any AR series
weapon into .45 ACP, .40 S&W, 7.62 X 39 mm, 9 mm, 10 mm, or .223 caliber.
The makes and models provided in this guide include those which the Department of Justice was able to
locate prior to printing this booklet. It is probable that some series weapons in circulation are unknown to
the Department of Justice. If you encounter a suspected series weapon that is not specifically named in this
booklet, please contact the Firearms Division at (916) 227-3703 for identification of that weapon.
Additional assault weapon models as they are identified will be included in future versions of this guide and
will be posted on the Firearms Division website at http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/awguide/.

Assault Weapon Generic Characteristics (Penal Code Section 12276.1)
The Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989 (Penal Code section 12276) regulates specific assault
weapons by makes and models. Since its passage in 1989, many manufacturers created new firearm models
that have very similar characteristics to controlled assault weapons. In response, the Legislature passed and the
governor signed SB 23 (Chapter 129, Statutes of 1999), which created Penal Code section 12276.1 to define
assault weapons by generic characteristics. It is important to understand that the Roberti-Roos Assault Weap-ons
Control Act of 1989 (Penal Code section 12276), which lists assault weapons by make and model, is still
the law and those weapons were required to be registered on or before March 31, 1992 (with the exception of
certain AK series and AR-15 series weapons, which are required to be registered on or before January 23,
2001). Peace officers can not purchase assault weapons and must register their lawfully possessed personal
assault weapons. (Penal Code § 12276.1)
Penal Code section 12276.1 complements rather than supersedes the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control
Act of 1989. A firearm that is of a type specified in Penal Code Section 12276.1 that has any of the specified
characteristics listed for that type of firearm is considered a Category 3 (generic characteristics) assault weapon.
Under the new law, a firearm’s make, model, or markings have no bearing on whether it is an assault weapon.
A firearm’s status as an assault weapon under this new category is determined solely by its characteristics.
There are three general types of firearms that are controlled by the new assault weapons laws. These types
include semi-automatic centerfire rifles, semi-automatic pistols, and semi-automatic or revolving cylinder
shotguns.

Generic Characteristics Defining Assault Weapons:
12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Penal Code section 12276, “assault weapon” shall also mean the following:
Rifles
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of
the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10
rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
Note: Bayonets and bayonet lugs are not assault weapon characteristics under California law.

Pistols
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to
fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

Shotguns
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or
vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
 
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