Is it just as good?

C

chuck_in_texas

Inactive
The types of JHP ammo, and their effectiveness, has been beaten up a lot. But here's a rational question:

Yesterday, at a gun show, they two ammo guys were charging between $25 and $34 per box for Remington Golden Sabers and also Hydra-Shock Ammo (in .38 Special +P). This is for box of 25.

On the way home, I stopped at the local Academy Sporting goods, which had an ammo "sale" to buy some .38 target loads. (I'll use them and re-cycle the brass. )

I spotted and bought a box of 50 Winchester 125gr JHP .38 +P for $18! Now, visually examining the cartridges, the bullet doesn't appear all that different from the "specialty items" I saw. Yes it has a little more lead exposed. And by the way it has a projection in the bottom of the hollow point similar to a hydra-shock. So, that's half the price of the GS and HS ammo.

My question: they're semi-jacketed, they have a soft point, a good broad hollow point---so shouldn't they be just as good? ( And, no, please flame me with questions about "what is your life worth".)

I'v had a supply of Golden Sabers for a while, so I'm good there. But my point is, is the premium that some defense rounds charge worth it when these are available?
 
It's an honest question that comes up pretty often.

Those +P JHP's use bullets that are of a dated design. They work, but aren't up to par, performance-wise, with newer designs. Will they work properly if you have to shoot through heavy clothing? Probably not. Will they retain their weight as well as newer designs? Probably not. Is it possible that they open too aggressively and hence under-penetrate? Possibly. FWIW, I've heard those .38 Spl WWB 125 gr +P JHPs as being roughly equivalent to Winchester's Silvertips sans the sexy silvery finish, but I can't vouch for that.

I view those rounds as being useful in the following ways:

> They do make for acceptable practice fodder, as they will perform similarly to your higher quality SD ammo regarding recoil and such.

> They aren't a bad choice for stockpiling for, uh, excrement striking the rotating ventilation device times. Lower price makes it that much less expensive to amass enough rounds to make for a decent stockpile. Caveat: You do need to be sure that they work properly in your gun. This isn't as much an issue with revolvers as it is with autoloaders, but you need to verify that anyway.

> For those who really don't have enough money to buy the higher quality SD ammo, they are better than nothing. And they are better than LRNs, FMJs, and other such range fodder for SD use.
 
They've worked fine in the past, and they will work fine now. But this is one of the few times I suggest that the slight difference between what worked fine in the past and what is cutting edge is worth the difference. It's a box of self defense ammo, it isn't something you need lots of. Buy the best stuff out there, replace it every 6 months or so, you are out less than $100 a year, probably much less.
 
gb:

thanks! sometimes there really aren't any bargains, but sometimes higher price doesn't mean better performance. But it sounds like you've researched this and the new designs ARE better. I hadn't thought of elements like clothing penetration.

BTW, you mentioned Sivertips. That's an old, old brand. Sounds like you're suggesting they may not be as good as some of the newer designs?
 
I load my carry guns with Speer 124gr Golddots +p but I really think people are just anal about ammo. I know people, even the whole state of new jersey so I hear that carry FMJ. They work, why wouldn't an "out-dated" hollow point work. It's not really something I loose sleep over. Yes there are better designs out there that can give you a slight edge, but if those are what you have the means to buy, or whats available in your area than I wouldn't really worry about it. Its still can extremely fast moving piece of lead, it will do damage regardless.

I am not trying to flame people who are very ammo cautious I just don't understand it peruse. I don't sit there and read reviews of ammo or ballistic tables and that jazz for carry rounds. I feel like if you stick to major brands that are widely accepted they will work for what you need them for. Just MHO.

However when it comes to my PM-9 I do take stuff into consideration because of the short barrel, so I guess I am slightly guilty.
 
I'd say buy what you can. If anything you find some of the better stuff ( I like HSTs in my 9s), then you can stockpile or range fodder the dated ones.
 
thanks! sometimes there really aren't any bargains, but sometimes higher price doesn't mean better performance. But it sounds like you've researched this and the new designs ARE better. I hadn't thought of elements like clothing penetration.
Click to expand...
So true. And if you are on a budget, there are some good alternatives to be had that are easy on the wallet. Check out Georgia Arms, for instance. Well, I'm pretty sure that they are heavily back ordered right now but then again who isn't? Anyway, their .38 Spl 125 gr +P Gold Dots are what's in both my bedside revolver as well as SWMBO's. About clothing penetration, weight retention etc.: That's where you get what you pay for, bullet wise. There's been some pretty major advances in SD bullet designs in the last 10-15 years. For instance, Speer's Gold Dot bullets have a special core to jacket bonding process that greatly increases weight retention. Test results have shown that many older designs -- including Federal's Hydra-Shok -- perform poorly when penetrating heavy clothing. The issue is that clothing fibers clog the cavity turning the nice hollow point into a non-expanding bullet, and the Hydra-Shok was more prone to it than most because of the center post. The issue with the Hydra-Shok became such that Federal came out with a completely new design in order to get around the issue -- the HST which is first rate stuff. Winchester's Silvertip is roughly similar, in a generational sense, to the Hydra-Shok. Both are premium offerings of yesteryear, but they are a generation out of date. Personally, if I were going with a Winchester loading I'd go with their Ranger/SXT stuff.
 
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