Is anyone else an optics nut?

F

FirstFreedom

Moderator
Always liked rifle scopes... But now, I can't deny it anymore - I may as well admit it - I am an optics nut! Hopefully it's a passing fad, but I've been semi-obsessed lately (last year or so) with optics of all kinds, be it riflescopes, spotting scopes, binoculars, telescopes, and to a lesser extent, even cameras. I think that I like them so much because my natural eyesight has always been rather poor, so it makes up for that.

Anyhow, I don't buy many really expensive items, as of yet, but I like to try out a lot of variety in optics. (maybe when I figure out what it is I REALLY want, I will spend larger sums on fewer items).

Lately, I've been on this massive binocular and spotting scope kick, which all started when Cap'n Charlie on TFL got me onto the Matsukov-Cassegrain spotters, and I ended up with the Celestron C130 Mak. Since then, I've ended up with the following binoculars (all but the Nikon have been recently purchased):

Tripod Binos
1. Oberwerk 22x100mm, Giant http://www.opticsplanet.net/ob22gibiwifr.html
2. Oberwerk 12-36x70mm zoom, Huge http://www.opticsplanet.net/oberwerk-12-36x70.html

Handheld Binos
3. Oberwerk 9x60mm, Very Large http://www.opticsplanet.net/oberwerk-9x60.html
4. Nikon Action 10x50mm, Large http://www.opticsplanet.net/nikon-10x50-action-binoculars-7218.html
5. Bushnell Legend 8x42mm, Standard http://www.opticsplanet.net/bushnell-8x42-legend.html
6. Leupold Yosemite 6x30mm, Compact http://www.opticsplanet.net/leupold-yosemite-6x30mm-natural-binoculars-61175.html

Needless to say, I'm impressed with the value and performance of the Oberwerks (or else I wouldn't have bought the 2nd & 3rd). http://www.opticsplanet.net/oberwerk-binoculars.html Was messing with the new 12-36x70s last night during low light and it's amazing the details you can see in far-off trees.

Also highly impressed with the Leupold Yosemite 6x30s.

ALL of these are porro prisms - even though I researched roof prisms with each purchase, I keep coming back time and again to the porros - because they are simply a better value in any given price range - you get better depth of field and lower price for the same brightness/resolution quality.

Thankfully, I am now fairly satisfied with my spectrum of acquisitions on binos (at least until someone comes out with a quality 7-8x40-43mm with built in laser rangefinder WITH angle correction).

Can anyone else who's an optics nut tell me some ways to compare them head to head - like what items are good to look at, at what distances, to determine which can distinguish certain details and which cannot? Likely, bullets holes are as good as anything, so I will be hauling them to the range (already have on some). I'm wanting to see just how well they can perform, next to to a standard spotting scope like I used to use for range work.

Any other input from fellow optics nuts, particularly on which porro prisms do you feel are the best values?
 
As you know, I was looking at scopes yesterday (thanks for the response). Previously, I was searching for online sights that review scopes; all I found were places that sell them.

I went into the store blind, not knowing anything about them; thats NOT the way I prefer to shop - which led to my original post.

Have you any good links that would help educate people; perhaps even put some in a pecking order based on quality/price/value.

One more thing ... whats a porro prism?

Thanks again.
 
Well, the buying guide at optics4birding is a good place to start for evaluating binos (or "bins" as birders call them), as well as some spotters:

http://www.optics4birding.com/buying.aspx

Also, some of the large online retailers like www.opticsplanet.com , www.binoculars.com , http://www.bhphotovideo.com , www.opticsspot.com , etc., will allow customers to review their products after they buy them - so you can read those reviews. Or they will have forums attached to the retail site, like opticsplanet: http://www.opticsplanet.com/msgboard/ That's likely your best bet. Some don't have the reviews though....

Plus, of course, there are a ton of different threads on forums such as shooting, hunting, and birding forums like this one and many others, on various optics.

Binoculars come in 2 types: Porro prisms and roof prisms. Two different ways of constructing them. Birders prefer roof prisms in my understanding because they are capable of delivering better color fidelity. And they are smaller (more compact) for a given objective lens size and magnif. But they are more expensive to make, and easier to screw up by a manufacturer. Thus, porros cost less for a given objective size, glass quality, coating quality/type, and magnif. Plus, porros give you a better depth of field than roof prisms - look here:

http://www.shawcreekbirdsupply.com/roof_porro_prisms.htm

http://www.birdwatching.com/optics/roof_vs_porro.html

Anything else you want to know, just PM or post here. I'm FAR from an expert, but I know a couple things. I would LIKE to become an expert in rifle scopes in particular, but not there yet.

Here are a couple of review/buying guides online:

http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/a/scopes.htm

http://www.huntinfo.com/reviews/product_reviews.php3

Yeah, there are several hits you get when you search for "review" or "guides" that are BS sites - that are nothing more than whorish links to retailers. :mad:
 
NcStar scope

last wk at the gun show, I bought a 2.5-10 Ncstar; when I took it too the range, everything worked liked it was suppose too. today I'll take it out to the desert and try it out. its suppose to be a terrible optics according to the reviews, but I bought it first, then read the reviews. one of those impulse buys; I'm old enought to know better.......:rolleyes: duh...
 
Thanks for the information FF. I do appreciate a good piece of glass, and you have been helpful in finding good deals with your links.
 
nikon monarchs 8x42 are very well regarded for under $300, probably the best out there value wise

others will say the swarovski 8x30 are the best value out there, but at 1k it may not seem like a value to some

those are the 2 I think you need to look at and make all comparisons with
 
Here is my favorite link on the internet about telescopes:

www.scopereviews.com

The reviewer has a very enjoyable writing style that kept me going back for more for a long time. Be careful you don't get obsessed with telescopes from this, it could be much worse than guns! At one point I was picking up eyepieces left and right, just because they are such cute little baubles. Some of them were over $300 a piece, but there is nothing like the 70-80 degree fields of view.

I do want to pick up a good spotting scope, but at this point I'd rather have a new gun. It's tough ;)

Oh, and rifle scopes are cool too (just to keep on the forum's topic heh).
 
voodoo, thanks for the input, but... if you take a gander here:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243590

You'll see that I considered the Nikon Monarch ATB in my search for midsize binocs, but found that quite a few other roof prisms seemed to outperform them for the money as detailed there, namely the Audubon Equinox Classic, Eagle Denali, Bushnell Discoverer, Alpen Apex, and the Vortex Sidewinder, particularly the Eagle Denali and the Vortex Sidewinder. The ATBs are good, but at the high end of the price range for that class, and heavier than the others. But as mentioned there, I found the Bushnell Legend *porros* to beat them all in value. I didn't find the Bushnell Legend *roofies* to be a particularly stellar value (unlike the Bushnell Discoverer roofies), but the Legend porros were a smokin deal, considering the weight, FOV, glass coatings, etc. If I were to get a midsize (or "regular" size) roof prism, I would probably go with that Vortex Sidewinder. The Swarovski 8x30s are undoubtedly great compact binos, but at that price, there's no way in hell they're a better value than the Leupold Yosemites I have. Value being performance divided by price. Besides, with the Steiner 8x30s, at 17 oz, being only $199, I don't think there's any way under the sun the Swarovskis are THAT much better than the Steiners.

Peter, I'm planning on getting at some point the Zhumell 12" Dobsonian, at about $800:

http://zhumell.telescopes.com/products/zhumell-12-inch-dobsonian-reflector-telescope-44098.html

That should gather some serious light, dollar for dollar. Thanks for the review link!

For a spotter, you might seriously consider the Celestron C90 Mak:

http://zhumell.telescopes.com/products/celestron-c90-mak-25825.html

or even the bigger C130 Mak:

http://zhumell.telescopes.com/products/celestron-c130mm-mak-spotting-scope-25829.html

Now darn you.... I'm now looking at higher power eyepieces for my C130 mak. The eyepiece I have gives me 63x magnif., but I could get either 80x or 200x magnif from these:

http://zhumell.telescopes.com/products/celestron-x-cel-series-1-14-inch-25mm-eyepiece-19119.html
http://zhumell.telescopes.com/products/celestron-x-cel-series-1-14-inch-10mm-eyepiece-19114.html
 
I already have the 127mm Mak-Cass from Orion and love it, but I was thinking something alone the lines of a Nikon Fieldmaster, for lightweight toting for spotting holes in paper and birds.

Re: eyepieces - You should take look at Televue Naglers and Panoptics; amazing wide angles! The Naglers are actually wider than your eye can see and the feeling is like looking through a porthole. I've also been covetting Televue's bino viewer for a long time (allows 2 eyepieces side by side).

My dream scope is a Starmaster 14.5" dob with a zambuto mirror on a goto platform. But the whole thing runs close to $6k and I am not putting enough time behind the lens to justify it.

If you are looking for a big dob for good value, another option is the Skyquest XT12 from Orion (I like that company, decent stuff).

http://www.telescope.com/shopping/p...DUCT&iMainCat=3&iSubCat=334&iProductID=252217

It's $870 and I can attest to good value for the money optically. They also have 6, 8 and 10 inch versions. I haven't seen the Zhumell stuff, looks nice though. Based on the reviews there seems to be a winner.

I like guns too.
 
zeiss monocular
Kowa 80mm spotting scope
Swarovski binos
Steiner bino
Celestron 8" schmidt-cass
Nightforce and Leupold rifle scopes
ITT 6015 NVD

.....because, as you get older your eyes need all the resolving and
light gathering help needed. buying cheap isn't going to do it any
more. i find my night vision isn't as good as it was 5 yrs ago.
sux to be....'mature' sometimes ;)
 
Good point, Pete - the Orion was my second choice among economy Dobs, close behind the Zhumell - that one is only $70 more than the Zhumell (12" vs. 12"). Both come with 2 eyepieces - the Orion comes with 2 Plossls, and the Zhumell comes with one Plossl and one of some other type. Both have crayford-style focusers. Both seem good values. I had read some negatives on the comparable Meades and Celestrons, particularly about the bases. But I'm wondering which is the better value between Zhumell and Orion. Actually, if I do go Orion, I might just shell out an extra $330 ($1,100 total), in order to get the computer-controlled sky object finder:

http://www.telescope.com/shopping/p...RODUCT&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=8&iProductID=276945

Although, hmmm - that's weird - the 10" intelliscope is there on the website, but not the 12" - but I know I saw the 12" somewhere for right about $1,100.
 
I am biased towards Orion simply because I have read more about them and have actually laid eyes on some of them, so they are a known quantity. But that's my own limited experience - the Zhumell's might be even better and you do save some money; maybe there's some reviews on them around the internet.

Here's a link to the 12" Intelliscope:
http://www.telescope.com/shopping/p...46&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=intelliscope

There's 2 choices - $1000 or $1200. Good stuff :) It's hard to believe you can get a 12" telescope with a goto system for so little.

Keep in mind this thing is LARGE and heavy. It's 83lbs when combined with the base. Although they say you can move them seperately its nice to carry them together for the ease of getting out there and starting viewing (a real plus to the dob style base). If you want something a little more portable the 8" or 10" are very nice also. But don't let me talk you out of anything! ;) You sure you don't want a 30" Obsession?
http://www.obsessiontelescopes.com/telescopes/30/index.html

I like Celestron and Meade, but I always felt that Orion gave you more optics for your money, while the others had more add-ons. I like to buy add-ons seperately.
 
Thanks for the link, voodoo. Funny that that 2005 article, 2 years old, talks about the pinnacle of bino choices, and yet it seems like there are dozens upon dozens of new choices since that time which were not reviewed. Would love to seem them reviewed in that comprehensive way - excellent analysis - but it just doesn't consider ENOUGH different models in the test. I'd like to see the Leupold Yosemite, Bushnell Elite, Bushnell Elite E2, Bushnell Excursion, Vortexes - various lines, Oberwerks, and quite a few others reviewed there side by side with the others.


By the way, this is not a half bad deal at all - special being run right now at SWFA (maybe elsewhere?). You get

-Bushnell Excursion 10x42mm roofies with phase correction, AND
-Bushnell Trophy 3-9x40mm riflescope,

for $170.

http://www.swfa.com/pc-8597-772-new-bushnell-10x42-excursion-binocular.aspx

P.S. Now I'm thinking of snagging a 10" Dob, rather than a 12" dob, and using the money I save on better eyepieces, collimaters, etc. - here's a thread I started on same subject at an astronomy forum:

http://www.astronomy.com/ASY/CS/forums/344266/ShowPost.aspx

I'm considering Zhumell, Orion, & Celestron at present.
 
A couple points:

Dobsonian refers to the style of the mount. Dobs have a base that sits on the ground. They are essentially Newtonian reflectors with that type of mount.

If you have a reflector, you will have to collimate once in a while and it is easy (you won't have any trouble with it). Instructions should come with the scope.
If you have a catadioptric (e.g. a Cassegrain) it should not have to be collimated unless it gets a severe jolt, and I would not recommend doing it yourself unless you are very handy and understand the scope very well.

Does anyone use any optics in indoor ranges? Sometimes I get tired of bringing the target in and out all the time.
 
OK, thanks Pete - Yeah, I had figured that out - a "Dob" is a classic Newtonian reflector with certain improvements made by Mr. Dobson, including but not limited to an alt-azimuth mount

I use regular binoculars (10x50) for spotting at 25 or 50 yards, indoors or out - works well if I'm shooting iron sights or low power optics and can't make out the holes. Though the indoor range only goes to 30 yards.

I've got a lot to learn on the collimation stuff, etc. - good to know that my Mak-Cass is not likely to need it absent a bump.
 
ok, it's official...I'm insane

Bought a couple more binocs... new ones are bolded:

Tripod Binos
1. Oberwerk 22x100mm, Giant
2. Oberwerk 12-36x70mm zoom, Huge

Handheld Binos
3. Oberwerk 9x60mm, Very Large
4. Oberwerk 11x56mm, Large
5. Nikon Action 10x50mm, Large
6. Bushnell Legend 8x42mm, Standard
7. Nikon Action 7x35mm, Compact
8. Leupold Yosemite 6x30mm, Compact
 
Yes, I am an optics enthusiast!! My personal choices are:
Binocs, Porro Prism: Nikon Superior E, 10x42mm
Binocs, Roof Prism: Leica 10x42mm, Leica 10x32mm, Leica 8x32mm
Spotting Scope: Nikon Fieldscope, 77mm objective, 25X ocular
Rifle Scopes: Leupold VariX II 3-9x40mm, Leupold VariX II 2-7x32mm
Pistol Scopes: Leupold 2x20mm EER
Camera: Leica R9 with multiple lenses

Wish my vision were better so I could enjoy the views thru this glass even more.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB
 
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