Is a fouling shot useful with modern smokeless powders in rifles and/or handguns?

[psyfly]

Back when I was in college we used to get a group together, make up a pot for a little fun and a (very little) $ reward.

Two-thirds of the pot would go the the top three and the rest toward beer and pizza afterward (sometimes, just beer ).

We always allowed a fouling shot before the competition began.

Was that overkill? I've not tried to scope out the difference since, but all those years ago, I thought it helped.

FWIW, I did well in those contests, but have never done any offically recognized competition.

Best,

Will

 

[jazzmanDK]

I remember I remember

Fouling shots were recommended for sighting-in purposes in the early fifties. I never noticed much of a difference. But in ways it made sense. I haven't used a fouling shot in years, though......cheap, I guess.....

Zip

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Yes, almost any and all rifles will shoot to a different place from a cold, clean barrel. Particularly that clean part. Even just switching powders can do it. I've seen it with my own two eyes. Some powders do it, some don't. I don't know if it's a double versus single base or ball versus extruded thing or what but the residues can effect POI.

There's no question about a clean bore, though. It definitely effects POI.

 

[psyfly]

Thanks. I thought my thread might get moved, but didn't think it would get moved where it did!

My sterotype, however.

In the competition I was doing back then with my friends (mostly), we all used .22 handguns, and mostly good ones.

I used my High-Standard Citation and I remember some S&W 41s, some 17s, and one guy actually showed up to one of our parties with one of those single-shot Italian jobs (don't remember the maker).

I think we all thought that first shot was more likely to be a flyer than any follow-up, so we allowed the "fouling shot".

Best,

Will

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

I can put it somewhere else if you'd like.

 

[eldermike]

It can depend on the gun. Back when I shot benchrest rifle in light Varmint class with a Hall action 6mm PPC we shot clean barrels in 5 shot strings and cleaned and cleaned and cleaned between strings. But at the same time I never cleaned hunting rifles for 2 reasons. 1) They would not shoot the first shot to POA. 2) Didn't want the smell on the gun.

 

[wogpotter]

Yes.

 

[mehavey]

Yes... and No.

Limiting the debate to rifles good for ~1" groups, I have found that while the
velocity will change after the first shot (rising by ~20fps out of, say, 2,750),
the POI at 100yds can still be close (¼-½”) to the final group.

 

[mboylan]

With match grade .22 LR, it takes several fouling shots to season the rifle bore with lube to stabalize zero and shrink the group size. When switching brands, it is necessary to reseason with that manufacturer's lube.

 

[BuckRub]

If you're gonna shoot bench rest and clean every 5 shots then that's what they do. For me I use hunting rifles or guns I play with out to several hundred yards and on a clean cold bore I think my guns actually start grouping after I put about 5-7 rounds down them. I guess it lays the right amount of lead, powder in the barrel to get things right then you can punch really tight holes. For my hunting rifles I sight in or make sure they're right on then don't clean until after season unless I get them damp. If I do have to clean and lube I ways go out and shoot the usually 5-7 rounds and things really tighten up again. I'd never shoot against a friend for fun on a clean barrel.

 

[Bart B.]

On centerfire rifles.... My experience wearing out several Hart, Obermeyer and Kreiger match barrels, they all put the first shot from a clean barrel within 1/3 MOA of the next 9 to 29 through 1000 yards. With the velocity tests I've made, bullets leave about 15 to 20 fps faster with a 3-shot fouled barrel compared to a squeaky clean one.

The 4 Springfield Armory, MA, government 7.62 NATO barrels I wore out in Garands needed 1 or 2 shots before settling into repeatability.

Factory barrels from Remington and Winchester needed 3 to 5 shots before bullets stayed in the same area. Other factory and arsenal barrels needed 5 to 10 shots.

On rimfire rifles... They all needed 5 to 10 shots to settle down from a clean barrel. Anschutz match barrels less, Remington, Winchester and Browning barrels more. It varied with ammo, too. Clean stuff required less, dirty stuff a lot more.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Clean stuff required less, dirty stuff a lot more.

That's an interesting tid-bit. I would have guessed the opposite. Neat.

 

[Unlicensed Dremel]

I believe that it is, yes. The POI won't change as dramatically as with a muzzleloader, but it can change some from a pristine clean bore.

 

[Jim Watson]

A SWATter here said he had a class taught by an AAI rep who said that, contrary to expectation, if you got a good barrel really really clean, that it would shoot the first cold clean shot into the group. He said it worked for his best rifle, a Blaser, but his Remington would still put the first shot out. He said it was very consistent where it went, so it was just something else to enter in his sight dope.