Is a forged HP frame better than a cast HP frame?

[P-35]

Several years back the frame on P-35's switched to cast steel from forged. (You can tell the difference by the serrations cast into the bottom of the frame near the magazine well as opposed to none on the forged version)

Most people I ask have varied opinions, I'm curious to hear any opinions here. What do you think Mr. Camp?

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello, P35! Esthetically, I prefered forged frames, but am told by Browning and others that the use of their cast frame makes for a gun that will last longer. Apparently, this change was made when the .40 HP on the forged frame didn't hold up as well as expected. Supposedly, the alloys used can somehow be tougher with the cast frame. None of this can I prove. As most anyone knows, I really like HPs and own a few. I'm still shooting one that I purchased in '71, obviously with a forged frame. I don't know how many thousands of rounds it has taken, but it's been a sizable number and it's still going strong. I guess that if the cast frame lasts longer, then I would prefer it. It feels almost the same as the forged frame except that it's a tad "flatter" across the front strap, but this in no way bothers me. One thing's for sure: If we buy current HPs we do get the cast frame so I reckon we must live with it although it's not a problem in my opinion. An early MkIII of mine has the forged frame and seems to be holding up well so I don't worry too much about it. I do routinely replace the standard recoil spring in my 9mm HPs with the Wolff conventional 18.5lb spring to reduce battering. Best to all.

 

[swampyMO]

Gentlemen,

I am certainly not an expert on metals or engineering, but here's my take on the subject. Take it for what it's worth.....

Many people still have a little bias towards the word "cast" because it denotes many of the products from much earlier in our technological history, ala 1800's. Great breakthroughs in metalworking in the early part of this century were always talked about as being "forged", giving a connotation of "weak" & "cheap" to anything that was still being made by old fashioned casting methods. It seems to our feeble minds that if we hear something referred to as being from "cast metal", it must be a step backwards in quality or of durability. Not so.... In fact, modern investment casting techniques can produce parts of a precision and toughness that can only be dreamed of by those who are entrenched in forging methods.
Modern nvestment cast parts have the advantage that they are pretty much fully formed as they are broken from the slurry mold, right down to finely polished surfaces. The only thing that (usually) still has to be done is drilling & tapping holes and putting on a finish (blue or polymer). Not only is this much cheaper than conventional forging & milling, but gives a stronger part as well.

Milling procedures that must be done to forged parts are areas of potential weakness during future operational stresses. Investment cast parts avoid this by having all these areas "pre-stress relieved".

Many people are not aware that many if not most of our modern rifles and handguns have had investment cast frames & receivers dating from the early 70's and even back into the 60's. Many people still think that those fine machining marks on the underside of their "BIG WHAMBO MAGNUM ELEPHANT STOMPER" rifle's receiver were made when the chunk of steel was cut on a milling machine. In reality, those same fine machine marks were made on the original master part and were then faithfully reproduced, fine line by fine line, on each and every wax copy by the thousands that went into the casting shop for reproduction.

While there are still some firearms out there that are made with forged & milled parts, most are today made with cast parts. We are better off for it..........

Just my opinion guys.

Swampy

 

[jimmy]

Interesting thread. I agree with Mr. Camp that the cast BHP frames are less esthetically pleasing. For example, I notice on mine that the dust cover looks a little crude when viewed from the front.

However, like most everything from Browning, BHPs are quality products, IMHO, whether cast or forged. Seeing the nicely polished blue and walnut stocks on a current BHP Standard almost feels like traveling through time back to the good old days, compared with the downgraded finishes from some manufacturers.

My $0.02.