I'm in the process of buying another press (Dillon 650), but I was wondering about something. If you were to make a bullet lets say a 9mm or 45acp, from 3 different presses (Lee Loadmaster, Hornady AP, and Dillon 650) using their own dies, would one bullet be better than the next? Would one be more accurate than the other?
Is a bullet just a bullet?
- Thread starter Pat C
- Start date
CarJunkieLS1
New member
With pistol cartridges at normal pistol shooting distances I'd highly doubt it. If it was an ultra precision rifle with some of the best shooters available at lets say 1000 yards then maybe.
And here we go... get out the popcorn!
My answer will be the press will make almost no difference for a pistol round. I would say the dies you use MAY make a difference, but very few people alive would be able to tell which ammo is more accurate shooting offhand. Finally, how you set the dies up, and your skill and understanding of reloading (it's not rocket science, but can be nuanced), will play a far larger role in how accurate your ammo is than the equipment you used to reload it.
If you are a benchrest shooter loading rifle rounds, then equipment begins to matter a lot more.
My answer will be the press will make almost no difference for a pistol round. I would say the dies you use MAY make a difference, but very few people alive would be able to tell which ammo is more accurate shooting offhand. Finally, how you set the dies up, and your skill and understanding of reloading (it's not rocket science, but can be nuanced), will play a far larger role in how accurate your ammo is than the equipment you used to reload it.
If you are a benchrest shooter loading rifle rounds, then equipment begins to matter a lot more.
Are you making bullets or loaded cartridges?
I'm going to say that using the proper dies, setup of the dies and using the proper components are going to have a larger impact than the press being used. There are differences between the presses and how they operate but using a $100 with adjusted everything correctly will result in ammo more accurate than a $1,000 not setup correctly.
I'm going to say that using the proper dies, setup of the dies and using the proper components are going to have a larger impact than the press being used. There are differences between the presses and how they operate but using a $100 with adjusted everything correctly will result in ammo more accurate than a $1,000 not setup correctly.
I do not see any reason why fully loaded cartridges produced with one manufacturer's equipment is any more accurate than any others. I am still using my 1980's Dillion 550B, rolled at least a hundred thousand pistol rounds through the thing. Most of my turrets have a lee sizing die, primarily because Lee dies are cheap, and the de capping pin does not come loose. I did spurge and buy a Dillion 45 ACP sizing die, I like the features of their die, specifically the spring loaded decapper. It does work to expel the primer out of the pocket.
I have one Lee 30-06 sizing die which no matter how I adjust it, gives terrible case neck run out. I don't know how critical that is to accuracy, but I don't use the thing because I believe it might. All the other rifle dies I have, they all work, they size the case and eject the primer.
As a general rule, you will have less issues using the same brand equipment, that is, dies and press made by the same manufacturer. My Lee dies, for example, the threaded shank is a bit short for my Redding T-7 press. I can get them all to work together, but there is very little adjustment left.
My opinion is. Your knowledge of processes and skills are every thing.
So you want to make bullets.
What kind of bullets?
What size?
What is the twist rate?
What should they be made of?
Do you have the proper tools?
Can you make all the measurements properly?
The list goes on and on.
If you want to make it simple cast your own.
And the list will be much simpler though it will still require your skills...
You can get some good deals on high quality bullets. So if you want to load then load store bought. If you want to make your own bullets. Forget about loading unless you have a lot of time.
That's my idea and I'm sicken to it.
So you want to make bullets.
What kind of bullets?
What size?
What is the twist rate?
What should they be made of?
Do you have the proper tools?
Can you make all the measurements properly?
The list goes on and on.
If you want to make it simple cast your own.
And the list will be much simpler though it will still require your skills...
You can get some good deals on high quality bullets. So if you want to load then load store bought. If you want to make your own bullets. Forget about loading unless you have a lot of time.
That's my idea and I'm sicken to it.
A bullet is just a bullet, and its the part that gets fired down the barrel.
I assume from context the OP is talking about loaded ammunition (cartridges).
I concur that done right, all the common brands of reloading tools will produce quality ammunition. Done ...less right... they won't.
Some brands have features that make it easier for the operator to use them to make quality ammo, but that is largely a matter of personal preference.
I assume from context the OP is talking about loaded ammunition (cartridges).
I concur that done right, all the common brands of reloading tools will produce quality ammunition. Done ...less right... they won't.
Some brands have features that make it easier for the operator to use them to make quality ammo, but that is largely a matter of personal preference.
I haven't made any bullets on my presses in a long while, but if you're talking about handloaded cartridges, I believe 99% of handload quality is determined by the nut behind the lever. A sloppy reloader won't be able to make good ammo even with the most sophisticated equipment. But a conscientious reloader will make good, safe, accurate ammo with the least expensive, basic equipment...
And THAT'S how we lose new members. Way to go dumping on the new guy!
That said, they ARE right. Words DO have meaning. And they were polite about it too. If you doubt this check out some other forums when a guy (or gal) misuses a term.
For handgun ammunition the short answer is no, nah, nyet. The press doesn't make any difference.
Now talk to the bench rest rifles guys and it'll be a different story but those guys are scary accurate.
P.S. My own post right here might be considered as dumping on a new guy and maybe it is just a leeetle bit but I hope you stick around as there's a lot of good stuff here on this forum.
Bullet:
A non-spherical projectile for use in a rifled barrel and sometimes contained within a sabot.
Cartridge:
A single round of ammunition consisting of the case, primer and propellant with or without one or more projectiles. Also applies to a shotshell.
That said, in my opinion the concentricity of a cartridge matters less with handgun rounds shot over short distances. The bullet runout of the cartridge becomes more important with rifle rounds to be shot over long distances. Even in the case of hand rolled rifle cartridges it takes a good rifle to notice. Does the press used to load the ammunition matter? My opinion is yes, a quality press like a co-ax will turn out more concentric ammunition than a low end sloppy press with excessive play in it.
That is the "short" of it as component quality also comes into play. Powder measurement, primer, brass, and the bullet. Like making a good meal, you start with good components.
Welcome to the forums!
Ron
Last edited:
JeepHammer
Moderator
Pat,
Without writing a book, or prainging on you for terminology,
(Gentle correction OK, climbing up someone's butt isn't)
A press just provides linear motion, with upper & lower limit stops.
*SOME* presses do a better job than others of both direct, true linear motion, less flex/deflection, stretch etc than others,
And REPEATABLE stops at both top & bottom of the stroke.
Doesn't matter what brand or type of die you use if the press isn't CONSISTANT on where it stops on its stroke cycling.
The dies make a HUGE difference once the press is behaving and acting predictable.
Consider the application here,
If you are blasting away at short range, rapid fire, without taking careful aim, then any round that will fit in the chamber and go off will work...
You know, the guy that empties the magazine on 3 yard targets because he *Thinks* he's training for 'Combat'...
The guy that NEVER removes & unloads a magazine, just clicks off remaining rounds until the slide locks back...
*IF* you intend to shoot for accuracy (Shot Placment) then the dies will matter.
You will want a sizing die that gets your brass back to a 'Standard' (be that standard SAAMI or one of your own).
Consistancy is the first step to accuracy.
You will want a powder thrower & powder that get along, meaning you get CONSISTANT charges in the case.
You will want a bullet seating die that works with the bullets you shoot.
That's a seating rod that fits the bullet type you are shooting without deforming the bullet nose, and seats the bullet in the case to a CONSISTANT depth.
Some seating dies do a good job of nudgeing a bullet in line with the seater rod & case, others like to stuff bullets into the case cocked to one side or the other.
The ONLY way to figure out if a die set is going to work for YOU is to try it...
That's why there are so many swap/trade/sell sites on social media, everybody gets something they don't like, can't use, etc.
Without writing a book, or prainging on you for terminology,
(Gentle correction OK, climbing up someone's butt isn't)
A press just provides linear motion, with upper & lower limit stops.
*SOME* presses do a better job than others of both direct, true linear motion, less flex/deflection, stretch etc than others,
And REPEATABLE stops at both top & bottom of the stroke.
Doesn't matter what brand or type of die you use if the press isn't CONSISTANT on where it stops on its stroke cycling.
The dies make a HUGE difference once the press is behaving and acting predictable.
Consider the application here,
If you are blasting away at short range, rapid fire, without taking careful aim, then any round that will fit in the chamber and go off will work...
You know, the guy that empties the magazine on 3 yard targets because he *Thinks* he's training for 'Combat'...
The guy that NEVER removes & unloads a magazine, just clicks off remaining rounds until the slide locks back...
*IF* you intend to shoot for accuracy (Shot Placment) then the dies will matter.
You will want a sizing die that gets your brass back to a 'Standard' (be that standard SAAMI or one of your own).
Consistancy is the first step to accuracy.
You will want a powder thrower & powder that get along, meaning you get CONSISTANT charges in the case.
You will want a bullet seating die that works with the bullets you shoot.
That's a seating rod that fits the bullet type you are shooting without deforming the bullet nose, and seats the bullet in the case to a CONSISTANT depth.
Some seating dies do a good job of nudgeing a bullet in line with the seater rod & case, others like to stuff bullets into the case cocked to one side or the other.
The ONLY way to figure out if a die set is going to work for YOU is to try it...
That's why there are so many swap/trade/sell sites on social media, everybody gets something they don't like, can't use, etc.
JeepHammer, thank you for your explanation, I currently load on a Lee Loadmaster which on some days been a challenge, but I work through it. I'm contemplating buying a Dillon 650, but I was just wondering if in fact do I need to spend around a $1000 to get a better loaded cartridge. The rounds I load are working fine in my handguns now so I'm not sure if i want to spend the money if I'm not going to produce better ammo.
The point to progressive presses isn't to produce "better ammo". Its to produce acceptable quality ammo in greater quantity per time spent loading.
In other words, the good ones will produce ammo as good as what you can make with the usual single stage presses, just more of it in less time.
If you want to make "better" ammo, (meaning more accurate) then you're getting into really tight tolerance things, which are, essentially specialty items.
Remember its a matter of degree, and effort vs. yield. When the difference between winning and losing a match is measured in thousandths of an inch group size, you use high quality (and high dollar) equipment. And, if you aren't shooting that high quality ammo out of an equally high quality gun, you're really just throwing money away.
In other words, the good ones will produce ammo as good as what you can make with the usual single stage presses, just more of it in less time.
If you want to make "better" ammo, (meaning more accurate) then you're getting into really tight tolerance things, which are, essentially specialty items.
Remember its a matter of degree, and effort vs. yield. When the difference between winning and losing a match is measured in thousandths of an inch group size, you use high quality (and high dollar) equipment. And, if you aren't shooting that high quality ammo out of an equally high quality gun, you're really just throwing money away.
I've loaded for more than 50 years now, and I tried the Lee Loadmaster when my kids gave me one for Christmas 15 yrs ago...I'd idly suggested that I wanted to move on from my single stage press...a Herter's #3 from 1962. They bought me the Lee LM and I spent two miserable years trying to keep the damned primer assembly working right, not to mention the powder measure et al. That old Herters by the way routinely produced rifle ammuntion that had a runout of less than 0.003"...and on just about anybody's dies.
I boxed it up finally and bought a Dillon 550B, and it worked so well that I bought a 2nd one so's I didn't have to change out the primer assembly when switching from large to small primers. Both have loaded roughly 50,000 rounds of both pistol and rifle ammuntion, most of it match grade, including the 5.56mm stuff that I hauled to Camp Perry for several years.
If you're going to move up, to a good press, the Dillon is the way to go. One phone call, one, and they'll help you through any problem and replace any parts that go south on you. To date, I've had one return rod on the primer feed go bad...that's it and I had it in my hands two days after the phone call to them. Great people...
As to the press making a big difference in loading quality ammuniton, maybe....maybe....if it's grossly out of alignment it'll matter, or if you need bench rest precision probably, but for the rest, nope. Dies make little difference either other than quality of finish, or ease of use (the Dillon variety), but all are generally good. Lee included...I loaded all of my Camp Perry ammo with Lee dies and did fairly well for a 65 yo with fading eyes.
Do yourself a favor, and if you need a press that loads 200+ rounds of truly quality ammunition an hour, get the Dillon 550B or is it 550C now!
Best Regards, Rod
Last edited: