Is a back up weapon required by the Department?

S

stdalire

New member
Follow up questions:
1. Is a backup small/big revolver/pistol weapon is a requirement by the department or just personal idea of the carrier.
2. Are they included in the firearms inventory of the department. Just an inquiry because very few I know carries back up weapon that are issued by any department but it is their personal gun. I have a doubt as to the legal purpose and effectiveness of back-up guns for life preservation.
3. Are these back-ups weapon are recorded in the department firearms inventory list.
4. Do they have great importance when we are on duty.

“JUST WONDERING SO I AM ASKING”

Love of learning opens the gate of knowledge.


[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited October 11, 1999).]
 
Very few deaprtments actually issue back-up firearms. My own dept. does not; we allow officers to choose a back-up gun along certain parameters- minimum caliber, minimum capacity, quality manufacturer, etc. I am not aware of any dept. that mandates carrying a back-up gun on duty. The officers are required to qualify with the back-up gun on a 25 yd course twice yearly. The handgun's model and serial number are recorded and kept on record. I would estimate that only 25-30% of the officers on my dept. actually carry a back-up handgun. Besides wearing a ballistic vest, having a back-up gun is cheap life insurance.
 
The Michigan State Police issue both the service pistol, a Sig in 9m/m and the backup S&W revolver in the same caliber. When they issued full flap crossdraw holsters, the backup was carried in the right front pants pocket. The pocket was designed for this use. They still use the same pocket even though they now carry strong side.

My first department would issued a duty weapon, if you wanted a worn out Colt or Smith, but really wanted us to carry our own pistols, I toted a 1911A1 with S&W-36 as back up until I got a Commander that was carried under the shirt.

My second department issued our serviec revolvers and forbid the carring of a second gun. I stuffed the Smith in my pants pocket anyway, I figured that if I had to use it and I was still alive, let the bastards fire me for violating regulations.

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"
 
I know of very few depts that issue a backup. In fact, I know more Dept's that officially denounce the carrying of back-up guns than ones that issue them.

All of the depts that I have worked for have required that an Officer qualify with his/her back-up gun and record the weapon's make and serial number.

Legally, I think the back-up gun would be treated just like the primary one, whether the officer was violating dept policy by carrying it or not.

The purpose of a back-up should be self-evident.

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-Essayons
 
Jim V.: I understand that MSP has switched from the S&W 940 in 9mm to the 640 in .357 Magnum because to many doofi troopers were bending and breaking the moon clips.

North Carolina troopers receive the Beretta 84F to back-up their full-size Beretta 92 or 96. Kentucky troopers get a Walther PPK. And Georgia troopers get a Glock 27 as a back-up to their G22.



[This message has been edited by Daniel Watters (edited October 12, 1999).]
 
Thank you for the the very explicit answers you've given. I appreciate to hear that your respective departments records the gun make and serial numbers. I wish it will be done also to my region.

For if not properly recorded then it will give misconception thinking to the legally minded public, when it is not properly used.
 
Jim Keenan, maybe in the past they were throw down guns but with today's crime labs, how could anyone think that the handguns involved in the shooting would not be examined? "We found the deceased's fingerprints on the pistol the officer said he drew on him but not on the magazine or the cartridges. Also the lint found in the pistol is consistant with that of the officer's trousers."

We had a Detroit copper shoot a person here in Michigan and then plant a knife in the deceased's hand. The ex-cop is now serving time in the state pen because of the lint that was in the knife.

A simple was to avoid any appearance of the second weapon being called a Throw Down is to have them registered with the department.


------------------
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"



[This message has been edited by Jim V (edited October 14, 1999).]
 
Jim Keenan: You have touched one of the main reason of back-up guns purpose, why some depts don't require it.

Like what Rob have stated, "the purpose of a back-up is self-evident".

Jim V: is right that to avoid any appearance of the second weapon being called a Throw Down is to have them registered with the department. How nice to hear opinions like these from responsible law enforcers to make the world a better place to live in.
 
It sort of gets me that people still make the throw down weapon BS statement. One way to avoid this perception is to make your back up Glock, or ummm back up pistol, a scaled down version of your primary.

If you carry a G22 then your first thought for a back up pistol should be the G27. Same action and opperation, same ammo, same magazines, basically the same pistol. If you use a 357 revolver, then a 357 snubbie would be your logical first choice of back up.
 
Some of the older coppers will say,"Why carry a backup?Your duty gun already carries 16 shots."But , the bad guys shoot for center mass ,just like we do.And that's right where your gun is.During Simmunition training(Paintball), Good guys and Bad guys were continually being hit in the hands,arms and fingers.If a bad guys bullet hits your pistol, those 16 rounds won't do you any good. This is also a good reason to practice weak handed shooting every once in a while.
 
Another good question to add to this mix is about off duty carry. How many departments require it and how many permit it and how many do not allow it? Before I retired from police work, I ALWAYS carried off duty. Like my American Express Card (TM), I never left home without it. There were a lot of guys I worked with that never carried off duty, "If they want me to carry off duty, they better pay me." and "What do I need a gun off duty for? Ain't nothing gonna happen anyway." Both kinda dumb reasons since BG's aint ever "off duty."

------------------
Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
"If there be treachery, let there be jehad!"



[This message has been edited by Jim V (edited October 17, 1999).]
 
Hi, Jim V.

You are perfectly correct that an officer probably won't get away with a throwdown today. In fact they never could have IF anyone looked hard enough. It's just that by some strange coincidence no one ever looked, especially if the victim was seen to deserve what he got.

Today, departments don't get away with that collective blindness as often as they used to, but we still see lots of coverups.

Jim
 
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