is 223 enough for east coast whitetails?

M

MLC

New member
My Grandfather and I have to thin the deer population on our farm.
We are losing entirely too many X-mas trees to the buggers.
I have several rifles but want to use one that isn't too heavy, Rem 6mm varmint rifle or LTR, as I'll have to tote it around while I'm working. and my 1917 sporter in '06 is a bit much for 150 yard max shooting. I was considering my AR since Fish and Game told him that any gun was alright. Anyone here use a 223 on deer?
I'm also considering an Enfield 303. Quieter is also better.
TIA
 
Well, it's considered marginal by those that are looking for a clean, ethical kill. A hunter is obliged to do that. 'Can't recommend it due to the chances of wounding vs killing. Of course, a good shot makes up for a lot of other shortcomings.
 
Lemme put it this way: If I were going to use a .223 on deer, it would only be a neck shot; or a heart shot when I was absolutely sure of the hit.

It's too easy for that small bullet to break up on a leg or rib and have a messy surface wound--and the deer goes off and dies a long way off.

Art
 
Thanks fellows, I'm either going to use my grandfathers 303 or my 308. This reminds me of a guy at the local gunshop bragging of how he used a 22wmr to bag deer "at the quarry". If a 223 is underpowered this guys was being reckless!
 
I have a cousin-in-law who hunts deer with a .22WMR. However, it's in the swamps, and he goes for between the eyes at ten to fifteen yards. He also can hit running squirrels with a .22 rimfire, so I'd have to say he's above-average in his skill level.

Situation, judgement, skill level...All that stuff.

I'd go the .303 or .308, myself.

:), Art
 
The 223 is a maimer and a crippler. I would not use it, even though it is legal where I live at. I personally think that the 243 is minimum for deer. Like you say, you have a 303 and a 308 at your disposal. I use a 308 as a personal favorite, along with my 30-06. Either with 150 grain bullets is an excellent deer stopper.

My cousing killed a huge 10 pointer this past season using a 303 British. Good luck.
 
Maimer and crippler?? I hope you were kidding! I also live in GA, and I would have no problem hunting deer with a .223. However, I would limit my shots to less than 100 yards, and I would only take neck-shots. The .223 is more than adequate for most eastern deer, as long as the shooter does his part. The two most important factors of clean kills, regardless of caliber, are bullet selection and bullet placement. 55-60 gr hollow points traveling at over 3000 fps are devastating on the soft tissue of a deer's neck, and kills the animal as quick as any other cartridge. You have to realize, though, that you must be willing to pass on deer you are unable to make clean shots on. If you doubt your shooting ability, then the larger calibers are your best bet. However, don't expect the cartridge to make up for your mistakes as a marksmen. A .223 to the neck is MUCH better than a .308 to the gut!
 
Jason,

We are just going to have to disagree. I've been hunting all of my life, and I know that the 223 is good in a survivalist situation. I also know that a lot of hunters are using it when they don't need to be. I was involved when the 223 was given the OK in Georgia as a whitetail round. A lot of politics in this decision, in 1989, that allowed all centerfire rifle cartridges to be used. Prior to that it was on the "not legal for deer" list, that also inclused the 30 Carbine, 222, and a few other underpowered cartridges.

The places at which a 223 will kill cleanly are very limited, as you pointed out by discussing "neck shots". As you mentioned, a shot other than the neck would likely have to be passed up. A good hit on a deer is either in the shoulder or in the vitals. Both places will stop as well as a neck shot, but not with a 223 being used. If you want to compare shots, lets put both shots from each caliber in the same place. A gut shot with a 233 is just as gut shot as a 308, no? Check as far and wide as you wish, I don't think that many will agree that a 223 is a good round to hunt whitetail deer with. Best -
 
Term,
Don't get me wrong, because I do agree the .223 is not a sufficient whitetail round. I merely argued the point the .223 can be used to kill deer cleanly, provided the hunter precisely places shots. I personally hunt with a .280, 7x57, and a .30-30. I would never suggest the use of a .223 as a hunting round, just that it can be done. Now, on to the debate of the .243....:)
 
In most people's hands the 223 is not enough for deer. But in some folk's hands it is more than enough.
I know folks that hunted for years with a 22mag and never had a deer walk more than 2 feet before dropping.
Here in NY we can use any centerfire cartridge and I use the 223 from a treestand with a rest. I shoot em in the head. I do not shoot at a moving deer and I don't shoot offhand. This year I let 2 bucks go because they wouldn't stop long enough for a good shot. I don't hunt with anyone that will shoot at a moving deer with a rifle.
I know guys that shouldn't hunt even with 12 ga shotguns because they couldn't hit themselves in the butt even if they stuck the barrel in a back pocket.
 
And so biganimal wisely brings us once again to what's meant by some movie feller who said, "A man's gotta know his limitations." :D

Art
 
HKLVR,

If you want a handy, light weapon for toting around the farm, then I recommend a .30-30 Winchester M94 rifle.
 
I know a couple people that have done it with AR's under 50yds. I wouldn't do it with the 55gr Ball ammo though. I'd go with some of My wonderful 69gr hpbt rounds. Bigger is better though.

In your neck of the woods I'd stick with a Shotgun.

You wouldn't happen to need any help would you? I live pretty close to you:D Seriously, and I know plenty of people that would take the meat. If your willing email me.
 
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Since you are culling deer, you are not looking for the "perfect" shot. You are looking to take down the deer with a single shot regardless of where you hit it. Use the 30-06. There will be no questions about killing capabilities, no worries about perfect shots, no issues about the size of the animal, and no chasing maimed deer around. Why do you think it is a bit much for short range?
 
Depending on the layout of his Farm a 30/06 may be dangerous. Some dope fired a Rifle and put it threw a car door, which hit the baseball cap of an infant while the car was moving. I believe it was somewhere in that area. I read it in the Trenton Newspaper in December.
 
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