Iron Sights on rifles, why are they disappearing?

A

AmericaFirst

New member
I know scopes are wonderful but I always took comfort that if something went wrong with a scope I still had my iron sights to fall back on. Today with the bolt action you rarely see iron sights, how many make them today?

If it came down to a Savage 110 with iron sights versus a Remington without iron sights I would go Savage. Iron sights are not something I would care to be without.
 
Why not go with quick detach rings and bases----buy a good scope and a cheap scope----sight them both in----if something goes wrong with the good scope you still have the cheap one as a back up. The 2 sets of detachable rings and 2nd scope would cost more---but not all that much. But at least you would still be able to hunt if you were a long way from home. Or if funds would allow----a complete 2nd rifle is even better yet.
 
Most hunting is done inside of 100 yards and none of it includes a table and chair. So why are 95% of the shooters at the range shooting rifles with high-powered scopes from a bench? Who knows.

FYI, there's a club devoted to hunting with old-style iron sighted rifles. Tom Selleck is a member:

http://www.rooseveltbrowninghunt.com/
 
mainly to increase light during the times when deer are present and moving the most.
second because you must be taught to shoot iron sights and unless you have a teacher at a young age or join the Corps then how are you going to learn.
lastly the advertising structure shows all these high power rifles w/ these big moonscopes on them and people think that is what they need.
i'd like to know what the average hunting rifles FPS and scope X increase has been from 1945 to today.
 
Scopes are nice, but I like iron sights at least for a backup. I never found iron sights confusing, scopes OTHO took some getting used to for me. First time that I used one , I could NEVER find what I had intended to shoot at "immediately."
 
I think iron sights are disappearing because most of us that are still shooting are getting older! Hell, I can't see those iron sights nearly as well as when I was 20, and I'm starting to consider scopes on more and more guns.
 
"Always remember your weapon was made by the lowest bidder"

Most rifle manufacturers are out to make as much money as possible. Therefore, they do 1 of 2 things:

1) Leave the iron sights off completely (there is some reasoning behind this: Those who really want irons will pay to get a primo set installed. Most shooters won't appreciate a good set and won't pay the higher price for them anyway.)

2) Put a set of cheap irons on the rifle. From what I hear, the Savage irons fall into this category. Something about steel screws in aluminum threads. Sooner or later that hummer will have problems.

Gun magazines don't help the iron sight cause. Read about 3/4" groups and then shoot something that stretches 6" at 100 yards because you can't get a clear sight picture and most people will swear off irons forever.

johnwill raises a good point that as we get older, irons are harder to use.

Personally, except for well installed scopes with quick detach mounts, I have never seen a setup that let me use the irons AND the scope well. Usually it's one or the other, but not both.

Edmund
 
I would not buy a rifle without iron sights. It would be like buying a car without a steering wheel.

The majority of rifles dont even need scopes, and wont benefit from them. I get a chuckle when I see someone with a 30-30 lever action with a scope on it. What are they thinking?

I agree a lot of scopes are sold just because advertising and gun zines have convinced people that they need them.
 
with game getting warier people have had to take to going after them at first and last light when it becomes difficult to see conventional sights. In the days when scopes were more fragile and many people had to pack into the hunting ground on horseback or packtrain most hunters felt it desirable to have iron sights as a backup rather than ruin the hunting trip completely. The result was that scope mounts had to be high to clear the iron sightline - undesireably high in many cases. Nowadays this consideration has largely disappeared when most can drive or fly to all but the remotest locations. There was also the social acceptability of scopes in the hunting camp - many hunters looked on the user as some kinda wuss who couldn't shoot well enough to use proper sights.
Nowadays glass sights are heavily promoted at prices most people can afford and most rifles are made to mount them without a lot of expensive work to be done. Fewer people feel the need to spend extra money on an iron sight they feel they will never use.
 
I think it's just a decline in basic marksmanship skills. A lot of the foregoing comments covered the gamut of reasons so I'll just add that when you see a guy with a 30-30 with a scope he must either 1) be so old he can't see the sights, or 2) going to shoot at dawn/dusk where scope will give you a few extra minutes over irons. Otherwise, he just can't shoot to the potential of his weapon with iron sights.
 
Are we goin targit shootin or are we goin huntin? If we goin huntin, which is easier; learnin how to walk, stalk, stand still and blend, make a killing shot.......or buy a scope????

Sam, and on an anysight smallbore match; I'll use a 24x.
 
Good ideas

I know that as guys get up there sometimes the sighting pic isn't like when we were 14 LOL

That said I still love iron sights.

I recall some mounts let the scope be swung down and to the side if you needed to use your irons.

That link to the site where Selleck is a member is much appreciated.

Maybe today scopes are and mounts are so good nothing can happen, at least usually. Surely the fellow who mentioned having a backup scope that can quickly replace a troublesome one has a good point.

Now if we think about those cowboy action shooters using firearms and loads that aren't nearly as accurate, one would think, as the modern bolt and calibers, they seem to hit what they are shooting at don't they?

I guess with pronghorns you probably be out of luck with irons but...LOL

I have to admit something: a rifle doesn't LOOK RIGHT to me without irons.
 
Hunting is safer when folks use scopes. Fewer other folks in a hunting group get shot at sundown/dusk.

Basically, a scope gives you at least 30 minutes more hunting time, at the time most game animals are more active.

Type of hunting: In open country, you might hit your game at 250 or 300 yards, but with iron sights it might not be as well-placed a shot as with a scope. "Clean kill" is paramount.

A scope can be adjusted for any eye-condition, whether you're farsighted or nearsighted--and you have a sharp picture even without glasses. (I think of those who use reading glasses, only; for them, iron sights are blurred.)

Stalking in thicker cover, outside the early/late light factor, use iron sights--scopes are almost useless when you're going for max speed for a shot. (Well, okay, you can train, train, train, just like for an IPSC match...But how many will do that?)

:), Art
 
Hell, if the Marine Corp still teaches guys to shoot out to 500 yards with iron sights, they are good enough for me! I know that I will stick with iron sights until I get my primo hunting rifle that can take game out past 500 yards.
 
For me, scopes allow greater precision on long shots, but tend to be a bit slower on moving game.
There is nothing like iron sights for fast moving coyotes or deer on the run.

The scopes come in handy at dawn/dusk, and for looong shots on critters that are not moving fast.

I don't think of the irons as back ups so much as I think of them as primaries. The scope is really the back up.
I have rifles with and without scopes, and all but one of the scoped rifles have QD scope mounts AND iron sights.
NONE of my iron sights are Quick Detach!
 
marksmanship is going to hell!

try to shoot an airgun with iron sights (anyone remembers?)

imagine what would happen if you had a gunsmith fit your stock on a model 94 with iron sights? it would be like shooting your scattergun at incoming rabbits.

keep blasting!
 
Iron sites:learning the basics

I collect old battle rifles and will tell you that the one time I experimented with a scope, I almost felt embarassed. I learn to shoot each with the sites that came on the rifle and only shoot off-hand until I good with it. I'll never be and expert marksman, but I can hit the target and feel a great sense of accomplishment when I become proficient with the rifle.

Also, the scope introduces a bunch of additional variables into siting a rifle. If things get even slightly loose, then you're back to zeroing the thing back in which is time consuming. If you're a dedicated hunter, then all the posts discussing that angle are on the mark. (no pun intended!) But, as far as I'm concerned, everyone, and that means everyone, should first learn with original iron sites before using a scope. I can't understand why week after week, many guys will spend the entire session on the bench with rests, even after they've sited in the rifle. They never take the next step and shoot off-hand with just their sites. As far as I'm concerned, that's like never taking the training wheels off the bike.

One short anechdote: I was shooting an MAS 49/56 off hand and loving every minute of it. I offered it to one of the "scope" guys to try which he reluctantly accepted. He shot 10 rounds in the black at 100 yards. You should have seen his face! He confided to me that he never thought he could shoot off-hand without a scope because he hadn't tried it before. Nuff said.

Rome
 
I shoot irons on all of my ARs except one 24" Varmint barrel flat top. I really like the HK irons on my 91 too.

The shooting population is getting older and many just can't see well enough to shoot irons anymore.
 
Just to echo what Rome said, you almost HAVE to learn shooting with a set of iron sights before you can truly make a scope work IMHO. Learning precision with iron sights teaches you breath control, trigger control, sight alignment and sight picture and all the other things that you need to be a competent shooter.

What do they say is the most important thing to do when shooting iron sights? Focus on the front sight tip, right? Well, with the scope, what happens if you should start to fixate on the target instead of the placement of the hairs? Well, I'll bet you've just come across the number one cause of 'flyers' with scope shooters! Also, ever start to 'chase' a group with a high power scope? Where's the precision there?

Older eye's not withstanding, I really think that a scope is something that you should graduate to. Don't get me wrong, I have scopes and use them, but they don't replace the iron sights on all of my rifles. If anything, they augment them. When (or if) they go to crap, at least I have a back-up. This is important when I'm about 20-something miles from the nearest town (and 'smith!) and the Elk are on the move!

Unkel Gilbey
 
I got a new AR-15 some years back. Was visiting a friend in Wisconsin. All his friends were going to the range to sight in for the fall. Did I want to come along and share?

First, I found out that even in the trunk, wrapped in a blanket, a rifle is ilegal in WI. It must be in a case. This makes it safer. I'm not sure how.

Second was that these guys had never seen an AR.

Third was that they couldn't shoot the ground reliably.

I shot at 25m to get started, got centered, and hit the 100 m range.

We were using benchrests and sandbags. I put 10 rounds into a couple of inches and was happy.

They brought back their targets. At 100 m, benched, sandbagged, and scoped, with bolts and levers, these boys couldn't shoot a 12" group.

AS far as I was concerned, none of them had any business shooting at a moving target until they went back and learned the basics. Using .35 rem, .308, .30-06, etc, at that range, with Rems, Wins, Savages, there's no excuse for not having all 10 holes touching.

4" would be pushing it.
12" is pathetic. I said so, politely. (held up my target)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top