investarms hawkins -- loads and powder question

REDCELL

New member
i am new to black powder. i bought this rifle for my father because of his love for the movie Jerimiah Johnson.
It is a Investarms Hawkins .50

i'd like to know what are the best/correct primers, and what powder to use. (triple 7 ,etc..)

I know there are so many different types of ball/sabot/bullets --which works the best (brand and diamater)

finally i need a basic understanding of a cleaning kit. i've heard soap and water though..

thanks for any reponses
 
You should experiment to find your best load, but I will tell you what works with mine. Mine is absolutely amazingly accurate with .490 round balls, prelubed .018 Thompson Center patch, 60 grains of Goex fffg. One ragged hole at 50 yards. Number 11 percussion caps for ignition. I use plain cold water to clean and then lube with Ballistol, works great with no problems. You will get lots of opinions on cleaning, this is what works for me.
 
Pick up a copy of Lyman's Blackpowder Handbook. It has what I think is the best treatise on general blackpowder use available.

You particular gun will take some tuning of the basic loads listed in the owner's manual which came with it. Start with their recommendations and then start changing ONE THING AT A TIME, until you find a load which is accurate and fun to shoot.

Welcome to the sport of "shootin' dirty." :D

Pops
 
Sometimes it easier to load using an .015 patch and only a little accuracy is sacrificed. Then as the rifle gets broken in after several hundred rounds, the thicker patch sometimes will become easier to load. Loading difficulties have been known to lead to broken ramrods and puncture wounds.
 
I too shoot one of the Investarms .50 Hawkins and have found 60 grains (and remember this is by volume) of either goex or 777 under a .495 rb and .018 patch will shoot a ragged one hole group @ 50 yards, if i do my part. It doesnt like pyrodex as well though and groups open up a little.
Loading down to 50 grains of goex shoots about as well though poi at 50 drops about 1 1/2 inches. 70 grains of either the goex or 777 hit the target at the same poi though groups open up a little and are good enough the 70 gr. load will be my hunting load with either powder.
With the Goex i have to moist/dry patch every 3 or 4 shots to keep fouling and difficult loading bearable but that seems to be the nature of "real" black powder.

Ive had the best luck with remington caps, cci's tend to have some misfires, and trying the cci magnums didnt help in that respect. groups opened up with all powders using the cci magnums also.

For cleaning at home, I use hot tap water, with a bit of dish soap. initially filling the bore with soap/water and letting it stand for 10 or 15 minutes. my procedure is to use a piece of clear plastic tube over the nipple into a jar of hot water soap mix, and i prefer a rigid aluminum shotgun rod with a bore guide and a 28 guage bore swab as it fits the barrel tightly. i'll use the bronze brush initially to loosen any remaining fouling, then swab the barrel using the above mentioned rod, with the tube in a jar or milk jug, i then get a siphoning action when pumping the rod in the bore, and you can see the fouling collecting in the catch container.
After scrubbing with the soap mix, i swap to plain hot tap water, just pinching the tube off with a clothes pin, again fill the bore and let it sit about 10 minutes, then repeat the scrubbing process. and continue to do this until the water in my catch container remains clean.
the last thing i do is repeat the swabbing with rubbing alcohol, to help remove any remaining moisture, several dry patches down the barrel, and in an hour or so lube patch to prevent rust.
Next then is remove the nipple and soak it in alcohol, wipe the exterior of the rifle as needed with alcohol soaked rag, to remove exterior fouling, and lightly oil wipe all exterior parts. then clean and dry the nipple and reinstall.

Note too, for a cheap effective bore guide, cheap plastic funnel, cut the spout, to just fit inside the bore, and cut down the mouth of the funnel so its an inch or so tall.
 
I own a Cabela's Sporterized Hawken and I believe it is made by Investarms for them. I shoot mainly Thompson Center Maxi-Hunter conicals(275gr?) in it with great results. My main load is one of the TC conicals over 90gr of Pyrodex and a Remington primer/cap. This hunting load shoots 1 1/2" inch groups at 60yds for me. I too have had bad luck with CCI caps especially the magnum version in causing misfires and hangfires in my Hawken. No problem with the Remington caps at all though. Hope this helps.
 
Hawken's

I have a Cabela's Hawken's .
What I did was get rid of the cap,and change to a small rifle primer.
After I changed to the small rifle primer,the Hawken's fires in rain with no problem.
I found mine on E-bay,and they are not made any more.
I forgot what they are called,but it's the way to go shoots
every time.
 
lots of different opinions and methods

What I do is this: use black powder - Goex is the most available - some like fffg as it tends to shoot cleaner. I have 3 pounds of ffg so I use that - which is really intended for larger caliber muzzle loaders like your 50.

Before you start though, I recomend the following cleaning method: fill two empty milk jugs (cut openings in the tops) with warm water and a little dish soap in one and hot water in the second. Take your barrel out of the stock - put one or two patches on your ramrod with a jag fitted to the end so that its a tight fit in the bore. Put the breech end of your barrel into the warm soapy water and push your ramrod/patches down to the bottom - pull it up and go back and forth as many times as you can stand - this will create a pumping action pulling the water/soap in and out of your barrel. Then, switch over to the hot water and repeat. When done, blow the water out of the barrel - dry off the outside and swab the barrel with dry patches until they come out dry. I like to use some 91% rubbing alcohol at this point - just pour a bit into the muzzle, blow it out of the nipple and then swab again with dry patches until they come out dry. Finish by swabbing the bore with a patch smeared with TC bore butter - make about 20 passes to coat it thoroughly. Use the bore butter patch to rub down the exterior of the barrel as well. You are now ready to go shoot.

I suggest starting with 50 grains of ffg or 40 grains of fffg under a 50 caliber ox-yoke pre-lubed wonder wad under a Hornady .490" ball - try .010" patches first and lube wth TC bore butter - just smear a small amount on the patch. You will find that the .010" patches will load much easier and may shoot great - so why start with a hard-loading thicker patch? If that doesn't produce good accuracy after some experimentation with different powder charges, try a tighter patch. As said, start with 50 ffg and then try 60, 70 and 80 - maybe fine tune with 5 grain increments after you get a good load.

I have had excellent results with CCI magnum primers but any #11 cap should do the trick - real black powder is easy to ignite.

When you are done shooting, just swab the bore with a patch soaked in BP solvent like Cabelas or TC solvents - two patches followed by dry patches is fine. Then, finish with a patch with TC bore butter.

Use the solvent to clean around the nipple/hammer area - finish with bore butter there too - just use sparingly and dont' clog the nipple.

If you're going to shoot again in a week, then you're done. If not, just clean with hot water using the method described above and finish with the TC bore butter. Many will recommend doing this regardless after shooting.

List of stuff you'll want to get:

powder measure (sliding type that goes up to 120 grains is fine)
nipple wrench that fits your rifle
capper - holds the caps for priming the nipple
black powder solvent
TC bore butter
patches
Hornady .490" balls
Ox-yoke prelubed wonder wads
set of tools for your ram rod (50 cal jag, ball screw, patch worm, chamber scraper, brush)
ffg or fffg powder - again, I strongly suggest real black powder like Goex

You may want to get a possibles bag or tool box to put your stuff in too.

Have fun!
 
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