Interstate Pvt Transfer of a Firearm (rifle)

E

edward hogan

New member
Likely covered ad nauseum here before. I Did look at the searches. But...

Do Private Sellers have any BATF-mandated need (or right) to demand a hardcopy signed FFL (or a faxed copy) before shipping a complete rifle or receiver to an FFL dealer in another state?

The question here is, IS THERE AN A.T.F. MANDATE that seller receive and hold any copy of the transfer agents FFL?

My understanding of the law is that Seller has a due dilligence duty to verify transfer agent is bonafide, but that this can be done by lookup on the BATF data base of FFL holders. Calling the FFL holder and maybe the police in the FFL's town, if Really Concerned.

Seller also would posess (if using USPS) a date-stamped Insurance receipt and Delivery Confirmation # which can be verified on USPS.gov, and then printscreened as proof of time of delivery.


Undoubtedly, it is a good idea to CYA with documentation, but since Pvt Sellers do not keep a log book, and are not required by law to obtain an FFL for their non-existent log, is there any reason to demand a buyer have FFL fax their Lic, other than having things, "my way or the highway!"?


None of the Sellers I've contacted to make a purchase this weekend asked me if I was prohibited from owning the rifle I wanted to purchase. <<I'm not.>> But all were adamant about getting a hardcopy of the FFL holders lic before mailing a rifle to this commercial, storefront, long established Sporting Gds Dealer.

One guy would not take my MoneyOrder unless the FFL signed copy accompanied my money.


I realize no one wants to be in legal jeopardy, but it would seem Knowing The Law would enable greater confidence in observing it.

I invite your comments.


I have purchased from FFL dealers, interstate.
I understand they keep a book. I know they can accept a faxed FFL these days.

I know that if I ship my rifle to a gunsmith, I have no right to request a copy of the gunsmith's FFL before shipping. Yet, if my rifle were lost/stolen en route, I could have the same Legal Jeopardy these nervous nellies are so fearful of when they consider making a private sale through an FFL.


Comments Please.
 
The only time a certified copy of an FFL must be sent to a seller is in a transaction between licensees. (See 27 CFR §478.94.) There is no legal requirement to send a copy of an FFL to an unlicensed seller and many licensees will not do so.

Getting the first 3 and last 5 numbers of the receiving dealer's FFL number and checking them against the BATF FFL eZCheck site is sufficient to show due dilligence on the part of an unlicensed seller. Anything else borders on paranoia.
 
In the case of an 03 FFL, I would ask for a certified copy, even though it is not required. The only way the license can be verified is to call the Licensing Center in Atlanta.

O3 FFLs used to be in the eZCheck data base but were taken out when many of them claimed it was an invasion of privacy since they were not in the firearms business.
 
If it's not required and they're not in the database, how does the shipping company assure that the package is addressed to a licensee? Take your word for it?
 
Exactly. There is no legal requirement for them to determine if the recipient is licensed.

I have shipped several firearms via UPS, FedEx and USPS and have never been asked to provide evidence that I was shipping to a licensee.

And yes, I declared that I was shipping a firearm.
 
Let me tell you guys...

I was trying to buy one, maybe two AR15 target rifles from a guy who said, "I work at the NRA and I know the Law!" He was in suburban VA, so maybe he did? Work for the NRA, that is.

The guy was just adamant that he had to have a copy of the FFL license for his "records". Cost this fella about $1800 to not try and find a way to handle the transaction. Not to mention, he came up a loser because he, In Fact, Did NOT Know The Law.

Years ago, I quit my NRA membership because of all the compromises NRA made and backed which always resulted in less firearms freedom for Americans.

It actually entered my mind that this "private citizen needs FFL signed copy" might be some kind of ruse to give a crook/terrorist an image that he could Photoshop or Digitally Manipulate for illegal purposes.

It is really a shame that some men are reduced to quislings in paranoid fear for every move they might make.
 
I like to think of it as a CYA. If I, a private citizen, ships a firearm to a non-licensee, where is the onus placed for making an illegal shipment? On me, on the receipient, on the shipper or some on each? I know, I can check the BATFE website for FFL01s, and call Atlanta for FFL03s. Will the shippers do this or will they "take your word" that you have checked. I would guess that if they have no liabiity they wouldn't have the rules they have.
 
Deadlin,

I really don't know.

The USPS regs state that the shipment is NOT to be labelled as a firearm. My Postmaster is only concerned that handguns cannot ship, and being a shooter himself, "advises" that out of state firearms shipments by law must got to an FFL holder.

Maybe your shipper asks for "proof of status" of the addressee, but I doubt it.

I spoke with the dealer receiving/transferring the gun(s) Iam buying and they indicated they would NOT fax their license to anyone not required by law to recieve it. That would be ANYONE (or any entity) NOT HOLDING A CURRENT LICENSE.

Maybe this guy in VA wonders why his guns are still for sale?
My guess is no private individual can comply with his terms.
 
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