Interesting read: The Concealed Carry Lie

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The Concealed Carry Lie
by Richard C. Evey
Libertarian / Patriot

Rights are defined by Black's Law: "A right of. free action. Rights are "inherent" and cannot be extracted from a person. A right is something that you can do without permission. A privilege is something that cannot be done without permission.

Rights are granted to me by my creator.

Rights and privilege are opposite.

Rights and responsibilities are inseparable. Every right implies responsibilities and the only limitation on those rights, is the equal rights of others.

The right to defend and protect myself even to the use of deadly force is granted to me by my creator and guaranteed by the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights. That right extends to the carrying of a firearm for the purpose of self defense.

A right cannot be licensed or permitted. A license/ permit can be granted/ revoked at any time, at the will of the government that granted the license/ permit or by a higher form of government.

Concealed Carry permits/ license (CCP) laws have been passed by over 35 states nation-wide. There is pending federal legislation that would make states recognized other state CCP as they do their own, just like drivers license, marriage licenses, etc.

CCP licenses/ permits are nothing more than gun registration. If I have a license/ permit granted by a government, then that government knows that I am carrying a concealed weapon and they can check on me, at any time, to see what I am doing and if I am complying with their dictates. If I have a CCP then the government also knows that I own at least one weapon.

The state of North Carolina passed a CCP law in the late 1990's, stating the county sheriff would be the only ones to have any records on who had a CCP. Within three years after the law went into effect, they changed the law and put all CCPs on a state wide data base. Telling every government law enforcement person in the state who is carrying and owns at least one weapon.

Now the federal government wants to be real nice and kind and wonderful and tell all states that they have to acknowledge all the other states that allow CCP. Once this law is in place, then the federal government will have a data base of all those who have at least one weapon. GUN REGISTRATION.

FACT: if you have a CCP, then you own at least one weapon and with a state permitting/ licensing system and the federal government acknowledging it. Then the federal government will not have to go through a lot of paper work to start it's confiscation of all weapons when the mood hits them.

Law enforcement people will not be exempt; if law enforcement (federal, state, local) do not go along with the system then they will give up their rights and their status as the elite. Remember: "we are all equal, some more equal than others".

When states passed the CCP laws, it was just a way to keep the sheep off guard and a lot of us fell for the betrayal and lies that were told to us by the elected freedom takers. The lie was: just ask for a permit/license because we want only the law bidding and the good people to have a permit/ license to carry a weapon. Would a criminal apply for a permit/ license?? That was the first lie; telling us to prove that we are innocent is in violation of the Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution. The next lie: The license/ permit will be just paper work and there will be no data base kept. They changed the law a few years later with no fan fare and the watchdog pro-gun groups missed that one. Then we got betrayed again. The next lie: Now they want a federal law that will make all states recognize other states' CCPs, so that we can go about our lives and not be concerned over legal issues, which will lead to a federal database. And the rest will be history.

There are states that allow people to carry a weapon open but then there is a law that say, you can be charged with "going in terror of the public", catch 22.

Then there are the states that do not required a license/ permit if you want to carry a concealed weapon. Remember: "an armed society is a polite society" and "a safe society is one where the criminal does not know who is armed", the criminal/ enemy can be the government, federal, state, local, it does not matter.

Until we get elected people who will not make new laws but repeal and/or modify old laws that would make it a right for all decent citizens to be able to carry a weapon, without the need of paperwork; anyway, anywhere, anyhow and the right of the use of deadly force without the fear of prosecution. We will be under control of the government and we will be their slaves and they will be our masters.

When was the last time that you got a permit/ license to go to church, read a magazine, write a letter to the paper, voice your opinion? Do you need a license/permit to remain silent?

The government must know who is carrying. Licensing/ permitting is a ploy by government to know who has the weapons and knowing who has a CCP; the government does not have to collect all the paper work that was used to buy the weapons. The government just checks the CCP data base and these will be the first who will have their weapons taken away, when the gun confiscations starts, by hook or by crook, by will or by force. Then there will be the ones who will rat out others just to save their skins, the first ones will be the politicians, law enforcement, lawyers, judges, and government employees and others will follow. All these people will have to do is rat you out and they save themselves from a possible prison time. They will still give up their weapons but they will not be in prison, just slaves.

What can you do?

1.
Find out what are all the laws and rules are in your state related to CCP and weapons ownership.
2.
Destroy your CCP, advise your local, county, state law enforcement that you do not have a CCP. Make sure that your information is off any and all state data bases.
3.
Work to get people elected that will alter/ change laws that will make it legal to carry without a permit/license.
4.
If you must carry, be very careful, with the search rules that are in place by the courts, you will be taking a chance.
5.
Advise others of the CCP lie and what is going on in your state.

We must work together to bring back the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights. It is not just a piece of paper and it is not a living document. It is the law of the land.

Remember the Trojan horse, the unintended consequences of laws, regulations and rules and how, when passed they appeared good but later they were twisted and the back page was learned and the truth came out about their real intention, Patriot Act I & II, National ID Act, RFID chip Act.

A lot of laws that have been passed within the last ten years looked good, sounded good and were meant to be good, but what could'a, should'a, would'a, wasn't.

Wake up people, the coffee is boiling over.

http://www.jpfo.org/ccwlie.htm
 
There are fallacies in this article.

One need not own a gun in order to get a concealed carry license. Having such a license is not de facto proof that one owns at least one gun. (Membership in the NRA does not mean a person owns at least one gun, either.)

One can own plenty of guns that are not "registered" even despite having a CHL/CCW/whatever you want to call the license. Having the license really doesn't tell the government anything. It may cause the government to assume some things, but it's not like it gives them knowledge -- and therefore power -- over you.

I would be all for utter Vermont/Alaska-style carry. No license required or desired. We have a way to go before that ever becomes the reality here in the U.S.

The way things are going, I feel it may be a complete breakdown of social and legal order that makes us "allowed" to carry anywhere we want without a license. Did Mad Max need a license to carry in the wasteland of the outback? ;) When there's no law, no courts, no police, there's no one to tell you you're doing something illegal.

Is "every-man-for-himself" too high a price to pay for freedom from a government that licenses what should be natural rights? Dunno. Maybe it'd be kinda fun! :p

At least we'd get to see a lot of unarmed leftist idiots perish! :D


-azurefly
 
A lot of laws that have been passed within the last ten years looked good, sounded good and were meant to be good, but what could'a, should'a, would'a, wasn't.


This is a misleading statement.

I think that any one of us could easily have looked at the bills that became CCW laws and pointed out numerous spots where they were far from ideal, proving that they were not indeed laws that looked or sounded good. The fact that Texas' CCW law provides for businesses to make store policy LAW (the so-called "30.06 signs") was, on its face, a bad provision of that law.

The various (and inconsistent) locations where various states' CCW laws prohibit CCW firearms -- that is another aspect of these laws that never looked or sounded good.

And any other gun-related law proffered as something to control crime -- "one-gun-a-month" laws; 10-20-life laws; gun "buy-backs"; magazine capacity limits; ugly-gun bans... who would ever say that these were Trojan horses that looked good until they were implemented? Nope, they never looked good, either before or after.


-azurefly
 
Maybe. But thats no reason to paint em rightious when you really know better. Accepting a CCP is a compromise and you know it.;)

I hope you feel better for getting it though. What's it really do for you? Do you commit less crime than you would without it? Now you have to walk on eggshells to keep your privilege while repeat offenders get plea bargains. That makes a lot of sense.
 
Edward429451 said:
I hope you feel better for getting it though. What's it really do for you?
Yup. I do feel better for getting it.

You see, here in Idaho, it's a Concealed Weapons Permit. It entitles me to conceal any deadly weapon. My choice. Nothing is listed on the permit. No guns, knives, swords, or any number of lethal weapons.

As an added bonus, I don't have to go for a NICS check. Select my gun, fill out form 4473, show my permit, pay my money and go. Heck, I know of several people who have permits, just so they can bypass the NICS.

It's been that way since Idaho became a "shall issue" state. Sixteen plus years now. Of course, we only need the permit for cities. Outside of cities, it's not needed.

The State doesn't even know how many permits are issued! That's solely a matter of the County Sheriff.

The State may regulate the manner of carry, but it cannot deny lawful carry. Idaho has chosen to regulate concealed carry, therefore open carry is unregulated [see In re Brickey, 8 Idaho 597 (1902)].

So, tell me again what the downside was? Hmmm?
 
Antipitas, if you HAVE to have a CC permit, Idaho seems to have it right. However, I do feel that I have turned a right into a privilege by getting a permit. Vermont and, I think, Alaska have the correct idea. If you don't get in trouble with it, it's nobodys business HOW you carry.:)

badbob
 
Alaska still issues carry permits even though they arent needed, most responsible gun owners get them anyway (for various reasons)

WildihaveoneAlaska
 
So, tell me again what the downside was? Hmmm?

:D

OK, Where to start?
1) It puts you on the list to be confiscated when they decide to stroke the pen that way.
2) You have to sign a contract with them making you subject to the new rules & regs, (forever?) relinquishing your god given rights and agreeing to theirs.
3) You're legally acknowledging the privilege being granted by them and their right to revoke their privilege at their whim.
4) You make yourself a subject to them and a non citizen.
5) You have to trust them to even acknowledge the rules & regs as was written by them, to not come back later and tell you what 'it really means'.
6) You have to jump through hoops, pay fees, and constantly wonder if you're doing it right, leaving no room for your own conscience, judgement, or morals. (walk on eggshells)
7) It's totally against the Constitution, human rights, and freedom in general.
8) It's insulting, I can think for myself.
9) It's intrusive into my private life & info.

Enough?
 
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My wife and I got ours specifically to make it easier to purchase firearms. She originally had no desire for the permit until we went to an estate auction. The auctioneer said no gun sales to anyone without a CC , valid pistol permit or proof of NICS check from any local gun dealer. This applied to handguns and long guns. Fortunately, I just happened to have a valid pistol permit in the truck. Imagine that.

Wouldn't the NICS check be more of a marker of how many guns you purchase than a CC would be anyway? Just curious, I really would like to know.
 
It is a real shame that pro-gun writers as in the original post find it necessary to lie to promote 2A rights. It is hard to be on the side of the righteous when you fight is based on untruths.
 
badbob, in the last legislative session, there was a push for legal concealed carry in vehicles, anywhere, without the permit requirement. As more time goes by, the Alaska model may well be adopted. Unlike the Vermont model, the Alaska model offers reciprocity, via its permits.

As a general rule, Idahoans get kinda chaffed when another state out does us in lax gun laws...

Double Naught, well said. We have enough truth on our side to not have to go to these lengths.
 
Rights in the Real World are created not by some perceived metaphysical ghost, but by whoever defines what rights are in the genesis of whatever society in which one happens to live . Rights are created and taken away by the creators of laws and governments, as are privileges. One must go to the source of the definitions of rights and privileges to see how those definitions apply in particular instances.
 
Rights in the Real World are created not by some perceived metaphysical ghost, but by whoever defines what rights are in the genesis of whatever society in which one happens to live .

Fair enough statement. Our country was founded at the genesis by our forfathers who clearly established that all could own small arms. Now at this late date in time, the PTB are trying to tell us what the Constitution 'really' says & means. Not a lot of people have trouble understanding the rights of the people or the limitations put upon givernment, except the government. We do not have redress for grievances, are not allowed to protest except in permitted areas etc.

Where's that leave us now? Do you give over your judgement & understanding to the PTB and let them tell you what you should think?
 
I believe that the Founders intended that every American citizen, as individuals, have the right to bear arms, uninfringed. I just don't believe that the Founders climbed up to the top of a mountain and received the Declaration of Independence and/or the Constitution from a "Higher Power".
 
Ok, Gods & ghosts aside. What would make you decide to give up centuries old established rights as put down by the forfathers? Is not a CWP an infringement?
 
If you are required to obtain a permit in order to do something, you are asking permission. If you have to ask permission, it is not a right.
 
I agree that a permit shouldn't be required; however, I'm old enough and experienced enough and have enough to do in my life such that I don't run around jousting @ windmills too much these days.

I delayed getting a firearms license for a long time. Since I do carry concealed and my state is a shall issue state with no training requirements, I decided to go with the flow on this matter.
 
Going with the flow is pretty much what it comes down to.

Sure, it can be acknowledged (I have no problem doing so) that it IS an infringement on a right when you have to get permission to exercise that "right." But the reality in which we live is such that if we didn't do it, didn't play the game, we would be putting ourselves in legal jeopardy.

We can work to turn the tide back to the way things ought to be (freedom to carry simply as a natural right) but that's something that we can't really do if we get ourselves hauled into the clink for not obeying the laws that They set down. Even if those laws are wrong, they still have power over us, at least for the time being.


-azurefly
 
On a tangential issue, I think that the law that prohibits one from walking in a gun store in a state other than one's home state and buying a handgun is unconstitutional. I can't think of any other legally-sold item that carries such a prohibition.

Problem is, the cost of challenging the constitutionality of anything is prohibitive for most Americans.
 
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