Interesting pacifist philosphy

Poplin

New member
I consider myself an open-minded person. When I hear new ideas, I try to give them careful consideration. After all, humans come from many different backgrounds and cultures. I am a foreign-born American and have seen that many folks from the old country simply cannot comprehend the way I think. This is very understandable.

However, I ran across an interesting philosophy on the web based on nonviolence and cannot for the life of me find any logic in it. I am simply dumbfounded. See for yourself:

www.nonviolence.org
 
They are right about one thing.Each person CAN see the same thing a little differently. What they apparently cannot understand is that perspective does not alter reality.

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Thought-provoking topic. Personally, I deplore violence. I don't even like watching violence in movies or on television. (Funny about that--it doesn't bother my wife one bit to see massive urban shoot-outs and serial killers on the big or small screens, but it repels me.)

However, I think that "nonviolence" is a completely otherworldly philosophy, based on the dreamlike assumption that the Hitlers and the streetcorner thugs of the world will somehow reciprocate their victims' warm fuzzies.

To me, the reality is that the human race will always produce its share of thugs regardless of the ministerings of the "nonviolent." To accept this reality is vital, because the Chamberlains of the world will stand no more chance against the Hitlers of the future than they did in 1939. Similarly, the advice of the urban pacificists of today (don't carry a gun! don't resist! give the criminals what they want!) is just as apt to fail. As far as I'm concerned, "nonviolent" surrender to thugs is shortsighted and amoral, because it permissively leads to greater violence later on.

Come to that, I don't believe the word "violence" should apply to the use of a gun, say, in lawful defense of one's life or the lives of one's family. IMHO, "anti-violence" would be a more accurate term for last-resort, lawful, personal defense. So, speaking as someone who abhors violence but who rejects the foolishness of nonviolence, I guess I'm "anti-violent"--if this or anything else I've said here makes any sense.
 
I suppose I could respect their positions if they didn't lie or parse, but they do.

I checked out the page on "Why a military". Those arguements didn't work in 1812 and they don't work now.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
I gave them a link after interceding in a Tom Bowers' list invasion of their (non-real time) bulletin board. Tried to explain that not all pro-RKBA types are that rude.

The reason I kept the link is to show another view to the fence-sitters and hope that they see through the bull...
 
Are not we all Pacifist? Don't we always seek the nonviolent way out of any confrontation? Bend like the reed sorta thing?

Only when the confrontation turns against us, and violence is visited upon us, do we respond in kind.

The Shoalin Buddist Monks are the same... They are the most peacefull people you will ever meet. Until you try to beat one up...

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SICK AND TIRED OF...
 
Their definition of nonviolence especially nonviolent resistance and pacifism is much different than ours. They refuse to acknowledge that nonviolent resistant will not work against someone of Hitler's ilk or the former masters of the Soviet Union, Gorbachev perhaps excepted. They refuse to realize that the Indian population would have been liquidated by the Nazis as undemenschen I believe the German to be-sub humans in any case. It would not have mattered if the Indians had used violent resistance, nonviolent resistance, total passivity, greeted them as wonderful liberators as the Ukrainians did, or even worn pink tutus.

McReynolds, mentions Marxism as one of the founts of his thinking several times but makes only one waffling reference to the monstrous crimes of Marxists. Where he stated that that Stalin was a lesser evil than Hitler. LESSER? The total kill count for Marxism is at least 100 million. The man is despicable.

Non violent resistance works in only one scenario. Where the resistance is public knowledge, public opinion is on the side of the resistance, and the repressive faction gives a flying flip about public opinion.
 
The lamb may lay down with the lion but I'd bet on only the lion getting up.

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Ne Conjuge Nobiscum
 
Oh, this is classic! When I tried to check out their Discussion Board I found (emphasis mine):

The Nonviolence Discussion Board
Notice: temporarily closed
Dear friends,
This Board has increasingly become more and more work to maintain and has been putting an ever-greater stress on the limited funds and resources of the Nonviolence Web. As many of you will know, I recently tried to redesign it so it would take less volunteer time to maintain but without moderation it quickly dissolved into very non-peaceful fights. I'd rather have no Board than a Board like that. So I will now be exploring other options.

I would like the Board to continue if at all possible but it probably requires re-writing the software to make the moderating process less time-consuming. I will start on that project but it might take some time. I will send an email out to the list when the Board is back up and running or when any more formal decision has been reached.
In peace,
Martin Kelley
_____________________________________________

Well, Martin, those nonviolent, non-peaceful fights can be a real drag, can't they? Now, if a nonviolence web site has "non-peaceful fights", I just wonder how these fools expect the world to work better if the rest of us only rely on turning the other cheek? What a hoot.
 
Behind every rational thought is an irrational impulse. Humans are irrational by nature. They don't always make sense, and they probably never will. That having been said, it's amazing the number of ideas that has been presented, through our irrational nature, and yet somehow we attempt to support it with our rational logic. This is what the website reminds me of.

For now, this is my take on non-violence. Personally, I see nothing wrong with their message. I believe that Warriors are non-volent as well. However, the difference lies in the opinion of how peace should be obtained and maintained. Conflict is given. Pacifists don't believe violence is an option while many Warriors do.

Here are some of my points of rebuttal:

People have often used Vietnam as an example of why war is not a good idea. How many people here think fighting against the Axis powers during WWII is a bad idea? I sure don't. My point: On very rare occasions, I believe it is possible for a fight to be both necessary and just. And the alternatives are worse than death itself. And during those times, war is an appriopriate option. To simply use Vietnam as an example, and not include other theaters of war for balance is biased.

The website has neglected to mention the good points of Capitalism. I mean, Communism fell apart while Capitalist systems of society have continue to rise in terms of standard of living. Doesn't that mean anything? Of course, Capitalism has its flaws. All systems have their flaws. Let me say it outright: There is no such thing as a perfect macroeconomics system. None. But to provide only the bad points without the good is biased in my opinion.

Oh, I love the parable of Arjuna the warrior. My personal interpretation is that Arjuna rode out to the battlefield and fought not with his spear, but with his heart. And that action alone has served his true duty as a Warrior. Arjuna did the right thing, the only thing that he could do in such a situation. Realize, however, that in the real world, love will not always work. Strictly in terms of tactical value, it's yet another form of psychological warfare that will only work if it can appeal to the other party's sense of emotions and conscience. Good luck trying that one on psychopaths devoid of any emotions.

"Nonviolence means an effort 'to do battle with injustice' without risking the destruction of our opponents, both because we cannot be absolutely certain we are right" (McReynolds 2) I agree on a philosophical level. On a higher level, no one ever really knows for a fact whether anything that we do is actually right or not. With a bar that high, I wonder if I'm doing the right thing breathing air or drinking water. And yet I still do it because if I want to live, that's what I'll do. Some guy jumps out of nowhere with a knife and attempts to impale me. I manage to turn it around and stab him instead. Am I right? I don't know. But I wanted to live and I did what I had to do to survive. As Descarte's Dream Argument has illustrated, I believe there is such a thing as pushing the bar of standard too high. Apologetically, we can only do the best we can.

Object permanence is an old hat. Anyone care to test their uncertainty of reality against 10 rounds from my Glock .40? No? I thought nobody knows what absolute reality is? It's that bar setting too high again. Look, I don't know what the true nature of reality is either. But I will say that metaphysics without reality checks (when applicable) to balance can be dangerous.

I question his basics in part six. How did the author conclude that being non-violent will lead someone to be honest, open, truthful, overcome fear, act from strength, etc? Relation? Sounds more like emotional elements rather than logical connections. And are these exclusive elements? Does that mean that those of us who are willing to arm and fight are dishonest, closed, fearful, and cowardly? Perhaps I'm reading too much into this. But, this makes no sense to me.

In closing, I really don't have a problem with what he is proposing. In fact, I agree with him whole-heartedly because I think a Warrior is also a pacifist, with one major addition: The Warrior thinks that fighting is an acceptable option while the pacifist does not. I don't think one way is better than the other. But which path to take is up to the individual to decide.
 
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