Interesting Gun Gift Question

nc_shooter

Inactive
Hello, new poster here, been reading the forum for a while though. I have an interesting gun gift question I have not been able to find the answer to and am looking for help or suggestions. My former stepdad won a S&W .38 special in a raffle at work back around 1991. He gave it to me as a gift when I turned 18 in 1995. I live in North Carolina and I know the person receiving a handgun as a gift needs a PPP first, however, the state statute that references that is from 2014, but I received this in 1995. My stepdad and mom have been divorced for a while now and I don't know how to contact him and doubt I will ever speak to him again. So, I have in my possession the .38 special giving to me 20 years ago and I prefer to keep things legal; so my question is, does anyone have any information about what gun laws looked like in 1995? I see the Brady Bill obviously, but I see no specific reference to guns as gifts and when exactly that became part of US or NC state law. Should I worry with trying to get the gun transferred into my name not knowing what the law was in 1995, especially since I have no way to contact the person who gifted it to me or just do nothing and let it go? I've been doing the former for about 8 years, but have recently started trying to find out if I am in legal possession of it or not. Thanks for any assistance.
 
nc_shooter said:
So, I have in my possession the .38 special giving to me 20 years ago and I prefer to keep things legal; so my question is, does anyone have any information about what gun laws looked like in 1995? I see the Brady Bill obviously, but I see no specific reference to guns as gifts and when exactly that became part of US or NC state law.
The Brady Bill primarily addresses conduct by a Federal Firearm Licensee or FFL, i.e. a licensed dealer.

The bill does not—and did not in 1995—govern private transactions between non-licensed persons who reside in the same state and who are lawfully permitted to possess a firearm. Such transactions were and continue to be implicitly legal under federal law by default, as there is no law or regulation prohibiting them, except for the prohibition on straw purchases. (As an aside, the allowance for private transactions is the so-called "Gun Show Loophole", which isn't really a loophole at all – in computer parlance, unregulated private transactions are a feature, not a bug. :))

A straw purchase is when an unlicensed person buys a firearm from a dealer on behalf of another and receives compensation in return, regardless of whether the recipient is lawfully permitted to possess the firearm. There is, however, a clear exception for legitimate gifts, which is explained on the Form 4473 that is filled out when the firearm is purchased. That said, the straw-purchase prohibition would seem to be irrelevant in this case, because the original owner won the firearm in a raffle rather than buying it at a dealer.

In short, the transaction is seemingly legal under federal law, so this is primarily a question of NC state law, which I'm not familiar with.

Most states now have a mechanism in their online system to look up older versions of statute laws, and the statutes themselves generally list amendments. Here's an arbitrary example from the TX Penal Code:
Sec. 29.02. ROBBERY. (a) A person commits an offense if, in the course of committing theft as defined in Chapter 31 and with intent to obtain or maintain control of the property, he:
(1) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causes bodily injury to another; or
(2) intentionally or knowingly threatens or places another in fear of imminent bodily injury or death.
(b) An offense under this section is a felony of the second degree.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.
The boldfaced text spells out when the law was created and amended. This is handy for knowing how to look up older versions.

If in doubt, consult with a qualified attorney.
nc_shooter said:
Should I worry with trying to get the gun transferred into my name not knowing what the law was in 1995...
There is no need to transfer it into your name unless the state of NC maintains a handgun registry. I don't know whether NC does or not. [EDIT TO ADD: Dakota's subsequent post says that NC requires a pistol permit be obtained prior to taking possession, so the permit system effectively functions like a registry.]

The Form 4473 that was filled out when the handgun was transferred to your stepdad (I assume there is one) is for dealer record-keeping purposes and does not technically constitute a registry, tinfoil hat accusations to the contrary notwithstanding. :)

Mandatory disclaimer: I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. ;) This is not legal advice. Caveat emptor and YMMV.
 
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From the NCDOJ page here

"In addition, this State law has been interpreted to require that a pistol permit be obtained by
the receiver of a handgun when such person inherits a pistol as a result of the death of another
person. The permit should be given to and retained by the seller or donor of the handgun. In such
a case, the permit should be given to the executor or receiver of the estate of the deceased person.
If the purchaser or receiver uses a North Carolina issued concealed carry permit for the transfer,
the seller should reference such permit on a bill of sale"

Looks like you may need to find a lawyer and maybe have them make an anonymous contact with your sheriff to find out how to handle the situation. It may be as simple going down to the Sheriff's office and getting a permit now. They don't really outline your situation as far as I can see. I would recommend a lawyer if you're worried about it. I doubt severely that it would ever become a known issue, let alone a source of trouble for you, but I would want to make sure I was in the clear also.
 
Are you giving to gun to someone as a gift? If so then the person being given the gift if they live out of state the gun must be transferred by a licensed dealer in that person's state. They must meet all state and federal requirements. If the person being gifted the gun lives in the same state then you must follow the laws in your state. If you are concerned about having the gun you were gifted 20 years ago and how to maintain everything legally I would contact a very good local attorney and follow their advice. I don't know if NC has a registration requirement or not but the lawyer should know or at least know where to find out.
 
Thanks for the replies all.. and no to the last question. I'm not looking to give the gun to anyone, I'm just not sure I posses it legally is all. And to Charguychris.. let me ask you this.. I found this while searching NC statute laws regarding handguns.. I have never really taken a deep look into statues before.. this one is dated 3/2/94, but I don't know if this is a draft (i assume not since it is revised), but I also see no specific way to tell whether this passed and what the effective date was. It does say you cannot gift someone a handgun without them first having a permit, but even on searching the statue itself I cannot find when it would have come into enforcement. thanks again all for the help.

http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/1993E1/Bills/House/PDF/H143v2.pdf
 
He gave it to me as a gift when I turned 18 in 1995.

Did you comply with applicable state and federal laws in 1995?

If so, then you are done. Once the gun is legally gifted, you own it. Its a done deal.

Generally speaking law can only be applied to acts that occur after the law goes into effect. If you (unknowingly) violated a law in 1995 with the gift, then you may have an issue. An act done legally in 95 cannot violate a 2014 law, as I understand the concept of ex post facto.

Not a lawyer, my advice is worth what you paid for it, possibly less.

Talk to a lawyer in NC for actual legal advice about the law in NC.
 
nc_shooter said:
...I have never really taken a deep look into statues before.. this one is dated 3/2/94, but I don't know if this is a draft (i assume not since it is revised), but I also see no specific way to tell whether this passed and what the effective date was...

http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/1993E1...PDF/H143v2.pdf
This bill apparently died in committee, which is what the heading "Referred to: Judiciary III" means.

§ 14-402 of the N.C. General Statutes is the relevant section (thanks for the link Dakota). This section was amended in 1993 with the passage of Session Law 1993-539, an omnibus bill to reclassify various misdemeanors throughout the NC General Statutes, effective 1/1/1995. Full text here.

Here's the text of the 1995 amended law, my emphasis in boldface:
§ 14-402. Sale of certain weapons without permit forbidden.
It shall be unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation in this State to sell, give away, or transfer, or to purchase or receive, at any place within this State from any other place within or without the State any pistol unless a license or permit therefor has first been obtained by the purchaser or receiver from the sheriff of the county in which that purchaser or receiver resides.
It shall be unlawful for any person or persons to receive from any postmaster, postal clerk, employee in the parcel post department, rural mail carrier, express agent or employee, railroad agent or employee within the State of North Carolina any pistol without having in his or their possession and without exhibiting at the time of the delivery of the same and to the person delivering the same the permit from the sheriff as provided in G.S. 14-403.
Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.
'Antique firearm' as defined by G.S. 14-409.11, and 'historic edged weapon' as defined by G.S. 14-409.12, are hereby excepted from the provisions of this section.
Unless there was some exception elsewhere in the NC General Statutes (which is certainly possible), my interpretation of this law—from a layman's perspective—is that, in 1995, one was required to obtain a permit or license from the local sheriff before assuming possession of any pistol in NC, gift or otherwise.

I believe that the last paragraph in Dakota's post is sage advice.
 
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carguychris said:
I believe that the last paragraph in Dakota's post is sage advice.
I agree.

The whole question hinges on what the law was in North Carolina in 1995. The best person to answer that would be an attorney in North Carolina. That would also be the best person to advise you if it turns out that the transfer did not comply with the law in effect in NC in 1995.
 
Doesn't seem to mention possession, just the receipt or delivery. Another reason to get advice from your attorney instead of us yokels on an internet forum.

A printout of your query and responses could save your attorney some time, though.
 
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