Interesting Article on Mass Killings

Wildalaska

Moderator
Mass shootings more common since 1960s

By MATT CRENSON, AP National Writer 6 minutes ago

Mass public shootings have become such a part of American life in recent decades that the most dramatic of them can be evoked from the nation's collective memory in a word or two: Luby's. Jonesboro. Columbine.

And now, Virginia Tech.

Since Aug. 1, 1966, when Charles Whitman climbed a 27-story tower on the University of Texas campus and started picking people off, at least 100 Americans have gone on shooting sprees.

And all through those years, the same questions have been asked: What is it about modern-day America that provokes such random violence? Is it the decline of traditional morals? The depiction of violence in entertainment? The ready availability of lethal firepower?

Northeastern University criminologist James Alan Fox blames guns, at least in part. He notes that seven of the eight deadliest mass public shootings have occurred in the past 25 years.

"I know that there were high-powered guns before," he said. "But this weaponry is just so much more pervasive than it was."

Australia had a spate of mass public shooting in the 1980s and '90s, culminating in 1996, when Martin Bryant opened fire at the Port Arthur Historical Site in Tasmania with an AR-15 assault rifle, killing 35 people.

Within two weeks the government had enacted strict gun control laws that included a ban on semiautomatic rifles. There has not been a mass shooting in Australia since.

Yet Grant Duwe, a criminologist with the Minnesota State Department of Corrections, said the availability of guns was not a factor in his exhaustive statistical study of mass murder during the 20th century.

Duwe found that the prevalence of mass murders, defined as the killing of four or more people in a 24-hour period, tends to mirror that of homicide generally. The increase in mass killings during the 1960s was accompanied by a doubling in the overall murder rate after the relatively peaceful 1940s and '50s.

In fact, Duwe found that mass murder was just as common during the 1920s and early 1930s as it is today. The difference is that then, mass murderers tended to be failed farmers who killed their families because they could no longer provide for them, then killed themselves. Their crimes embodied the despair and hopelessness of the Dust Bowl and the Great Depression, the sense that they and their families would be better off in the hereafter than in the here and now.

On Dec. 29, 1929, a 56-year-old tenant farmer from Vernon, Texas, named J.H. Haggard shot his five children, aged 6 to 18, in their beds as they slept. Then he killed himself. He left a note that said only, "All died. I had ruther be ded. Look in zellar."

Despondent men still kill their families today. But public shooters like Virginia Tech's Seung-Hui Cho are different. They are angrier and tend to blame society for their failures, sometimes singling out members of particular ethnic or socio-economic groups.

"It's society's fault ... Society disgusts me," Kimveer Gill wrote in his blog the day before he shot six people to death and injured 19 in Montreal last year.

In the videos and essays he left behind, Cho ranted about privileged students and their debauched behavior.

He also mentioned the Columbine killings, referring to Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris as "martyrs." Imitation undoubtedly plays a role in mass shootings as well, said Daniel A. Cohen, a historian at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland.

"Certain types of crimes gain cultural resonance in certain periods," Cohen said.

So many post office employees gunned down their co-workers during the 1980s and early '90s that they spawned a neologism. To "go postal," according to the Webster's New World College Dictionary, is "to become deranged or go berserk."

The most recent postal shooting was in January 2006 when Jennifer San Marco, a former employee who had been fired a few years earlier because of her worsening mental state, walked into a letter sorting facility in Goleta, Calif., and killed six people with a handgun.

Criminologist Fox speculates that the increasing popularity of workplace killings, and public shootings generally, may be partly due to decreasing economic security and increasing inequality. America increasingly rewards its winners with a disproportionate share of wealth and adoration, while treating its losers to a heaping helping of public shame.

"We ridicule them. We vote them off the island. We laugh at them on `American Idol,'" Fox said.

But there has also been an erosion of community in America over the past half-century, and many scholars believe it has contributed to the rise in mass shootings.

"One would think that there's some new component to alienation or isolation," said Jeffrey S. Adler, a professor of history and criminology at the University of Florida.

People used to live in closer proximity to their families and be more involved with civic and religious institutions. They were less likely to move from one part of the country to another, finding themselves strangers in an unfamiliar environment.

Even so, the small-town America of yesteryear wasn't completely immune. On March 6, 1915, businessman Monroe Phillips, who had lived in Brunswick, Ga., for 12 years, killed six people and wounded 32 before being shot dead by a local attorney. Phillips' weapon: an automatic shotgun.

Remarkably, violence in today's media seems to have little to do with mass public shootings. Only a handful of them have ever cited violent video games or movies as inspiration for their crimes. Often they are so isolated and socially awkward that they are indifferent to popular culture.

Ultimately, it is impossible to attribute the rise in mass shootings to any single cause. The crimes only account for a tiny fraction of homicides.

And a significant fraction of those who commit them, including Cho, either kill themselves or are killed by police before they can be questioned by investigators.


*I find something fascinating in this article...I think I see an anti gun control trend starting...do you agree?..hell, why be socratic, Ill underline!


WildinterestingAlaska
 
Last edited:
I agree with your conclusion Wild. I have been lurking in areas notoriously pro gun control since this tragedy. It seems there are a growing number of people who are arguing successfully that gun control doesn't/hasn't worked.

Have you noticed a growing number of more politically liberal gun owners participating on sites like TFL over the past couple of years or is it just me?

The next year or so will be interesting.
 
interesting indeed. I think the bit about community should be paid close attention. not really sure how such a problem could be fixed...if it even is a problem. it seems more like the natural evolution of society :o but it certainly could be an important factor
 
I first saw that article on Yahoo. It was a little disturbing because it just reinforces through historical examples that men are capable of terrible things. It seems as if we can't blame violence on gun laws, or the eroding of American values. It makes me wonder if we will ever have true peace?

I was shocked at the claim that Australia has had no mass shootings after their massive ban on firearms. It prompted me to research a little about Austrailia's incidents that led to their extensive firearms bans and regulations.

Here is a link to wikipedia on gun politics of Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia#Port_Arthur_massacre

It is a another very disturbing story of the government's power over the people, but if you have the time to read, I highly encourage you too.
In Australia gun crime has not disappeard as guns are still being obtained illegaly but, it has decreased significantly. HOWEVER, the muder rate has not necessarily decreased. People simply rely on other weapons such as knives to commit violent crime. That message is very clear. So I wonder again, will there ever really be peace? I suspect there won't as man's nature will never change. At least as American's, we can do something about it. The most brilliant minds of our nation, the Founding Fathers, gave us the right and the power to protect ourselves. I just wish that all Americans could understand this.
 
How does anyone conclude that guns are more 'pervasive' today than ever before? Yes, there are lots more guns now but there are also a lot more people.

There was some research (by a notorious anti) that attempted to show that guns were not common in America until the 20th century. It was reported in all the major media outlets. Real researchers took one look at his methodology and smelled a rat. His methods were widely criticized and his conclusions rejected. Of course, the pop media didn't report that.

Is it a coincidence that the first major gun control laws started being passed in the '60s and multiple-victim public shootings have only continued or become more common?
 
Last edited:
"It makes me wonder if we will ever have true peace?"

Sure we will.

It will start a second after the next-to-last human in existence dies.
 
You might be right...

The shootings at Columbine and VT demonstrate that 911 and the police cant be everywhere to protect you.
 
Aftermath

There is a growing lack of faith in this country about gun control. We haven't reached the tipping point yet, but more and more people are publicly admitting that it doesn't seem to be working.

I think Sept 11 (I refuse to call it 911) was a turning point. The world didn't change (it has always been a dangerous place), but many people's view of the world did change. The fact that the terrorists managed to do such violence without any guns was a big hit to those who have claimed that without guns all would be safe and well.

Many people are finally realizing that it it the intent in the mind that is the weapon, and not the particular tool used to carry out the act. Notice that (domestic) gun control has not been a big issue in the last few years. The closest thing was the sunset of the AWB in '04, despite attempts to keep it going. Many more people today are aware that they have been lied to about gun control, and want nothing more to do with it.

This doesn't stop the hard liners, nothing will, but they don't have the same degree of public support that they have enjoyed in the past. The shift is there. Not as large as we would want it to be, yet, but it is happening. This latest mass shooting must be used as a rallying cry, to drive home the point that decent people armed can stop these things.

We have to make it clear, over and over, to our elected officials that if they want to keep their jobs, we have better things for them to worry about than gun control laws that don't work!

The anti's have one thing right. Guns are the problem. Not guns in the wrong hands, but a lack of guns in the right ones!

32 dead because some administrator thought that a deranged killer would follow school rules!

Until they break the law, the human time bombs in our midst must be afforded the same rights as the rest of us, because they are the same as we are. Equal protection under the law. Until they do something to change their status, we are all the same. No law, no test, no mental health professional can truly know what is in the hearts of men. All we can know is how they act, and until and unless they act outside the law, we cannot object, because it infringes on their (and ultimately our) rights.

Since there is no way to shut these people down, or even know their true intent before they act, the only thing humanly possible is to shut them down as soon as possible when they act. And the best way to do this is to allow, and even encourage those who wish to be armed for their own defense, to do so. And it doesn't even have to be firearms.

What do you think the response of the country would be if one of those VT students had grabbed a fire axe, stood next to the door, and when the shooter came in, gave them the chop? Or did the same thing with pepper spray in the eyes and then tackled them?, instead of just waiting to be killed?

They would be called a hero. This country needs more heroes. Now more than ever.
 
I dont know if mental health experts can see into the hearts of men..but the one that said Cho was a danger to himself and others was right. I think you will find that the mentally ill have plenty of rights and are not deprived of them.

looks like the Democratic Congress isnt going to do any gun control measures according to the articles I have read and might even get help from the NRA in crafting laws to close the hole that let Cho purchase a handgun. Dingell and McCarthy will be in charge of this.
 
There is a growing lack of faith in this country about gun control.

***There does seem to be a softening in some traditionally anti-gun quarters, at least there was before the recent college shootings. There's been a few rants in the media about the need for more gun control, but much less than I feared, so far.

I checked out the Dec.2006 copy of Harper's magazine at the library and was pleasantly surprised to see an editorial by Garret Keizer (whoever he is) in the Notebook section called Loaded, which was quite pro-gun. Harper's is unabashedly liberal, so I found it hopeful that Keizer is obviously in favor of people owning guns for self-defense and is a gun owner himself (who neither hunts nor sport shoots.)
 
Absent a true mind reader

All anyone can tell of what is in the mind of an individual is what that individual wishes them to know. Even mental health professionals are in this same boat. If the person they are interviewing is truthful with them, they can make a reasonably accurate judgement.

But if not, then the best that they can do is determine that they are being lied to. What the true intent of the individual is can only be guessed at. And guesses, even of licensed professionals, is a poor basis for judgement under law.

There are individuals with fantasies fully the equal (or even beyond) of any the VT shooter could have come up with. Some of these individuals do go on to commit evil acts. Others spend their entire lives without acting in any way offensive to society. And still others who turn their fantasies into novels and screenplays, and make a living selling "horror" as entertainment.

If the creator of a character like Hannibal Lector were to be interviewed by the psychs and did not make it clear to them that he was speaking as a fictional character, then I do not doubt he would be judged a danger to himself and others. On the other side of the coin, if the pyschs were convinced that the fictional character was the dangerous one, and the author was not, then he would be released, while in reality it might be the author who was the dangerous one, with the fictional character nothing more than a dodge to fool the authorities.

There is just no knowing, until they act. Infringing on human rights based on the notion of what someone might do is bigotry of the highest order. Call it stereotyping, bigotry, profiling, or prejudice, or whatever, it all boils down to the fact that a judgement is being made in the absence of fact.

It is a presumption of guilt before a crime has even been committed. All prescreening, background checks, etc. are intended to do is filter out those individuals who have already committed some offense that bars them from legal ownership of arms. It does not, cannot, and should not stop those who have not committed any offenses. If you have not committed any offenses, then you are, by definition, a law abiding citizen.

And when a previously law abiding citizen snaps and goes on a killing rampage, who is it that gets the blame? Is it the individual who made a conscious decision to pull the trigger? Usually not. It is the system that get the blame, for not preventing the unforeseeable. Or it is the tools used. Or the social conditions that "drove" the individual to commit their crimes, conveniently ignoring the huge number of people in the same situation who did not choose to commit mass murder and suicide as a way of dealing with it.

Here is a novel idea, why not make those who make the judgement responsible for the harm done by those they free. It could be applied to mental health professionals, parole boards, and even court judges.

They would never stand for that. They would one and all scream long and loud, "You can't hold us responsible, we had no way of knowing what they were thinking, we wouldn't have let them go if we did!"

Exactly. They couldn't know. So instead, the response from some quarters is to try and place further useless restriction on those who are blameless. How, exactly, does this help? I'll tell you how, it doesn't.

Hindsight is 20/20. Meaning we always see things perfectly clear, after the event. Those who believe that (more) gun control is the solution are suffering from rectal-cranial inversion, which is the only way to achieve the clarity of hindsight before the event.

I'll say it again, the problem is not guns in the wrong hands, the problem is no guns in the right hands!
 
http://www.michaelmoore.com/2001_0922.html

"I cannot go to work. But I have a film to finish. Our editor has been unable to make it in from New Jersey, but he is there now waiting for some word on what to do. I can't even think about this movie. I don't WANT to think about it because if I think about it I will have to face an ugly truth that has been gnawing through my head...

This started out as a documentary on gun violence in America, but the largest mass murder in our history was just committed -- without the use of a single gun! Not a single bullet fired! No bomb was set off, no missile was fired, no weapon (i.e., a device that was solely and specifically manufactured to kill humans) was used. A boxcutter! -- I can't stop thinking about this. A thousand gun control laws would not have prevented this massacre. What am I doing?"

--Michael Moore 9-22-2001
 
Back
Top