installing 1911 stake-on sight? & what about pachmyr rear sights?

J

jmstr

New member
I am working on my Systema Modelo 1927 version of Browning's wonderfull 1911A1 design. I have almost finished all the little changes I am going to do, such as flaring the ejection port and new grip safety.

Before I refinish it [I am leaning toward hard chrome just for the durability factor. a good blue is beautiful, but hard chrome seems to last longer] I want to figure out what to do about the sights. I hate the g.i. sights on it, but I don't want to spend the money to have sight grooves milled into it. I like doing things myself, as much as possible.

So I was debating what sights to install and was leaning toward something with an adjustable rear to fine-tune the aim point. I am using the gun as a range/home defense gun. I probably will use my Ruger p97 for home defense, but want the Systema to be as accurate as I can make it without going broke, and with the idea of keeping it as smooth as possible.

So I was looking through my Brownell's catalog at the variety of sights available, and noticed a staking tool for installing the staked-on front sight.

This leads me to a couple of questions. One of these is 'how difficult is it to use these tools successfully, without the front sight 'walking' loose?' The second one is 'can I use them to safely install night-sights in the front without damaging/breaking the tritium vials?' I am concerned as the description of the tool refers to hammering the front sight into place, and I don't want to try this on night-sights if I am going to break them. I don't NEED night sight on the gun, but if I can install them, then why not?


I was also thinking of just a Trijicon front sight and a Pachmyr rear adjustable sight, so I can have the tritium for night work, but have what looks like a good, no milling-involved, adjustable rear sight at the same time.

Any thoughts?

thanks!
 
I am NRA Mechanically Inept, so I settle for watching my gunsmith beat on front sights with hammer and punch. When done right, a staked front does not come off. With the right fixture, it is possible to stake on a tritium night sight without smashing the ampoule. (Most of the stake-on night sights have a flange around the base of the blade and the fixture supports the sight by that flange, not the top of the blade over the tritium lamp.)

Can you do it right the first time on a $50 night sight? I dunno. You might think about learning on a $7 blade and move up later.

I used one of those Pachmayr adjustable sights for a while when my gunsmith was reequipping his shop and did not yet have a milling machine. I guess it is better than nothing if you want some adjustment but it is nothing to compare to a Bomar. Lots less expensive, though.

By the way, hard chrome is not an inexpensive finish. APW charges $129 and up, depending on the polish wanted. They will stake on a front night sight for $32, too.
 
I did a full house renovation on one of these nice guns to use as a duty weapon on my last Job. I wanted a cheap 1911 that the Cops could send to the crusher after a gunfight that I would not lose a lot of money on. I used fixed Metro-Lite sights front and rear, had it hard chromed, put some nice cheap black grips on it and carried it. I qualified 100% with it four times a year and it did a great job for me.
Having said that, I hesitate to tell anyone it was a great plan because it was a dumb plan unless you have the tools and skill to do the work yourself. I took the rails down, cleaned up the frame and slide, did a full house checkering job in a long weekend, bought all the parts wholesale, and ended up with a $500.00 gun instead of a $250.00 gun. In those days we could ship them UPS anywhere for $5.00 each way and it was feasible to do it.
Here is what I did to my $225.00 Norinco for sights which I place in the same price range as your 1927.

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New thumb safety.............and stock new take off Colt rear sight.

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Revised grip safety for the Ring Hammer............................

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New MGW front sight milled to .055........................

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New $5.00 front sight installed.

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The Big Sight picture completed...................now I have a $300.00 Norinco.
 
sights

Dear Dave:
Looks good, and it'l shoot as good as a $1000.00 gun I'l bet!
I've got the mill and sights, but this is a real good looking sight set-up - I've NEVER used a stake in front. I always put Novak blanks in and processed them - I'll try a "stake in" one of these days just to do it.
Harry B.
 
thanks for the tips: I especially like the one to try a cheap sight install first as I hadn't thought of that.

The Norinco looks pretty good too.

I know about the hard chroming, as TechPlate has done work for me before [an excellent job, in my opinion, and at a reasonable price: Kahr K9 slide, slide stop, mag catch/release, and firing pin back plate for under $75] and I like the fact that I can drop it off with the guy in charge in person and pick it up later without shipping issues.

As for the fine-tuning, I am trying to do all of this without an excellent shop. I have a vise, dremel, and hammers, so I was trying to avoid anything that required milling in any fashion.

Thanks for the tips!
 
I've staked on front sights, but would pay for night sights. Freight costs are low as you're only sending the slide. Or, depending on who is doing your refinish work, many refinishers also do sight work. I know Tripp does and their hard chrome it top notch.

to me, the extra $ in labor is worth it over the cost of me screwing up the tritium vials. My prefered night sights are Hienies so the slide needs mill work front and rear.
 
There must be some trick to it that comes with experiance or tooling. I had note sites installed on my Colt and the front popped off awhile back. I ordered a replacement and took it back to the shop that installed them in the first place. I wasn't even trying to get them to warranty them or anything and they refused to do it a second time. Another smith said yes, broke the vial and had to order another. They got it on and it seems tight but time will tell.
 
Dovetailed or stake on has nothing to do with the quality of the tritium sights. Mepro-Lites are very good sights and I have staked on several with the .055 tenon and the .125 tenon. Dovetails became popular because no one wanted to stake them on tight. There are some tricks to the trade. Beverling the inside of the sight tenon hole is one, and using the MMC sight staking tool is another. Acetone and 640 Green Loc Tite Sleeve Retainer completes the big picture. I have yet to break a vial or lose a front sight that I have installed.

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After we are done with the staking, I use a sanding drum to smooth out the area inside the slide and make sure the bushing will go in and out OK.
 
Dave and Roy seem to have it right, I've had the same experience staking front sights. Just relieve the slide, support the sight properly while staking it, and clean it up with a Dremel. Never lost a front sight, narrow or wide tenon.
And I love a hard chrome finish. Have done a few 1911s in hardchrome and it can't be beat. Seems to wear in, not wear off.
This is my long-time everyday gun, I finished customizing it about 12 years ago, given it hell since, and the finish is as good as new. Rain, blood, snow, sweat, sand, dust, neglect, whatever, it still looks pretty good, and its still perfectly, utterly reliable.
And that stuff about Auto-Ord metal being not all that, I haven't yet seen evidence thereof....
 

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Evidently, Roy P is talking about a SA front sight tenon which can measure in the.080's. The .055 has been standard on SAE 1911's since they quit using the round tenon in WWI. The Colt '80 series were the first to use the .125 (1/8th) inch tenon so that they would stay in.

I have a Special Tool that I use to stake in tritium front sights as they have a shoulder on them for that purpose. I designed a set of Tritium sights that needed to have a vial inserted in the front sight and three vials in the rear. It is the best tritium sight picture I have ever seen, but who cares. Most of what I do is not copied because it requires some thought and extra effort.

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These are on a PPJG that I built for a Professional Soldier.
 
I've been doing a lot of extracurricular reading. The gentleman (PvtRyan on homegunsmith.com) has a lot of good info and pics on staking a front site (and everything else).

http://www.roderuscustom.tzo.com/

I just finished reading his 80% Colt Commander Project. Look under "Progress" of the Roderus site.

Not sure the taboo of posting this... :o
 
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