Inquisitus ignoramus maximus.

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Pond James Pond

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I just know this is one of the most basic questions, and I should feel ashamed for asking it.

As luck would have it I have no shame, so I'm asking. :o

When I zero'ed my scope for my usual ammo I aimed at the centre, fired, then put the rifle in a support, and proceeded to adjust the scope so that the cross hairs crept over from the centre to the bullet hole.

When I did that, I remember seeing the little arrows on the turrets directing "this way for up" or "this way for down", yet when I turned them to move my POA to my POI, they went in the opposite way to where I expected.

They seemed to work in a completely counter intuitive way.
Does UP have a different meaning when adjusting scopes?!

Why is that?
 
There is nothing wrong with your scope.

You are not losing it and this is a common occurrence. It all depends on the scope. In most American made scopes, if you want to raise the point of impact, on the target, you follow the directions of the UP arrow. Then there are other scopes that you do the 180. I've read that the actual operation or norm, is as yours works and too many folks were confused, so scope manufactures just labeled them the opposite. .... :confused:

Be Safe !!!
 
On my scopes the reticle acts like a nut on a threaded bolt.
Turn the adjuster clockwise and the crosshair moves toward the adjuster.
Think Nut and Bolt.
Unless, of course, it goes the other way.
But none of mine do.
 
I agree with Pahoo, youre not going crazy. :)

I was helping my buddy sight in a couple of his rifles last week, and "up" was up on one, and down on another. Same difference with the "right" arrow.

I always just bore sight mine by looking down the bore and bringing the cross hairs onto what Im looking at in the bore. So far, its always got me on paper.

As far as adjustments go, I always go with the aggressive method I was taught with my irons on my M1's. Better to go past and come back, than to creep your way across. Its faster with less wasted rounds. With the contrary "arrows" on your turrets, it also tells you pretty quick what is what.
 
Think about it.... they have to move the reticle the opposite way.

You have fired a bullet and now find that the hole is below the aim point. In order to raise the spot where the bullet hit, you must raise the barrel angle. That means lowering the reticle.

Or, consider that since the bullet hole is low, it will be BELOW the reticle. If "up" raised the reticle, it would get FARTHER away, not closer.

It's always that way when you're moving a "front" sight. Archery, for example... the rear sight is fixed. The front sight moves. If you're shooting left, you move the pin left.

Since you're not normally LOOKING through a scope when you make the adjustment, they just label it for the EFFECT it has, not the direction it's moving the sight.
 
Think about it.... they have to move the reticle the opposite way.
Click to expand...
Youre absolutely right. The problem is, the makers seem to be confused. :)

Its sort of like the one range I used to be long to. They used a red, yellow, and green flag system. It was a "sportsmans" club, and it seems none of them had ever been on a military range. Red to them meant "safe", or "stop shooting", for quite a few of us who joined later, it was pretty confusing for awhile. The color system was directly opposite to what was beat into out heads as kids. Red means danger. Green was safe. :)

Now, is up down or down up? In the immortal words of Vinnie Barbarino...."Im soooo confused!"
 
Americans need all the help, we can get !!!

Since you're not normally LOOKING through a scope when you make the adjustment, they just label it for the EFFECT it has, not the direction it's moving the sight.
Click to expand...
Thank you for expressing it better than I did. I have seen many European scopes that work in this manner and American scopes that dealt with the EFFECT. .... :rolleyes:

Be Safe !!!
 
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You're not going crazy, but not for the reasons posted above.

The difference is that:

1) Moving the reticle from the center of the target to the bullet hole (moving the POA)

is the direct opposite of

2) Moving the bullet hole to the to the center of the reticle/target (moving the POI).

(Old guys know "stuff" ;) )


.
 
You fired and THEN put your rifle in a support? That sounds backwards as well.
Click to expand...

It is a support for cleaning, not a clamp for shooting. I made it from three left over bits of fibre-board from the kitchen refit....

So I shoot, seated, then use the rest as a stable platform, on the table I shot from, to then adjust from, peering through the scope to track the reticle's position but trying not to touch/jolt the rifle. Repeat until POI = POA.
Not so backwards.

As for the adjustment on what is a Burris XTR, I think Brian's take in the logic that needs to be applied but also PetahW's little reversal guide probably explain where my confusion stemmed from. So the trick is partly to stick to either POA to POI or vice versa, but not mix and match!

Thanks!

Once I decide on which bullet to use as my standard practice round (at least two more OCW runs to do) then I will re-zero to suit!!
 
I have a Sweeney Sight Vise that I use when adjusting newly-mounted scopes. It's screw-adjustable for elevation, but windage is done by moving the rear of it on the bench. Rifles can be shot when locked in to the vise, but I don't do that, preferring to use a regular benchrest setup.

Many adjustments marked 1/4" @ 100 yards were found to be up to 1". Cheap Red-Dot sights are often backwards, but being made in China, that may be understandable. LOL

The rig not only saves ammo, but allows for adjustment clicks that either weren't accurate, or knob markings that are opposite from the way POI was to be moved on-target. And yes, when using it, correct adjustment knobs are turned opposite to markings to make the image coincide with bullet strikes. (That's because you're moving the reticle image to coincide with the desired bullet strike instead of moving subsequent bullet strikes to the aiming point, which is what adjustment knobs are designed to do.)
 
fire three shots and after that ajust the scope away from the error and towards the target.the scopes manual should explain how to do that
 
After all is said and done, I agree with green_MTman. I find it easier to shoot and chase the target rather than chase bullet holes..just my opinion.
 
Let's say I aim at the X of a target, for example, and then say the shots land upper right, 3" away, meaning that at 100yds, I'd need to move the cross-hair by 6 clicks (1.5 MOA) horizontally and 6 vertically.

What I would normally do is put my gun in the support, adjust it so that the reticle is on the X and then use the turrets to move the reticle toward the bullet hole. However, this usually means I am having to turn the turrets in the opposite direct to that which is written on the turret heads.

That would be chasing the bullet hole, and the method you recommend against, right?

So can you explain how to chase the target in similarly simple language?

This must seem terribly obvious, but my head just gets very muddled with this sort of logic...
 
you adjust the sight so you get a group at POA

or if you are hunting you have POI a couple of cms above

but being made in China, that may be understandable. LOL
Click to expand...
well duh china is on the opposite site of the world
 
The usual convention is that the turrets are marked to move the bullet strike where you want it to go (from the shooter's point of view).

Using your example of the bullets hitting high and right 3"....

Using the knobs, you would turn them to move the bullet down, and left those 3".

What this does inside the scope is move the crosshairs up, and right.

USUALLY the markings on the turret are to move the bullet hole on the target, BUT, it is possible they are the directions the crosshairs actually move when the turret is turned. This is the exact opposite of what you want if you think you are moving the bullet strike.

Makers instructions should be clear, but might not be. Two shots (or groups, if you prefer) will tell you which way you need to go, no matter what the markings are.

I have also found that on some scopes the markings about how much each click moves the bullet are more like guidelines than rules....

Here's a little test, (usually) not something vital, but nice to know...

Say you figure out you want to go 6 clicks in some direction. Some folks will go the 6 clicks and shoot. Some will go 8 clicks, and then back 2, then shoot.

The numbers are just for illustration. I have seen scopes that will put the bullet in a slightly different place if you go past, and then back to the desired setting.

Also, while it shouldn't happen, some will shift the point of impact slightly as magnification is changed.
 
I've boresighted rifles from my dining table, removing the bolt, looking out the window at some fixed object, and twiddling the crosshairs until they are fairly close to what I see through the bore. You don't even have to know what L, R, U and D mean; just twiddle until something good happens. Books and a towel make as good a support as necessary.

Okay, now to the real deal. I draw a cross on a sheet of typing paper for a target and tape it to a cardboard box. I set it at some 25 steps from my benchrest.

I fire one shot. If the bullet hole is left of center, I turn the knob "R" and shoot again. Similar twiddle for high or low. Since I've been doing this for sixty years, it rarely takes more than three shots to be dead-center. Think of it as adjusting a rear sight on an iron-sighted rifle.


Okay. Now for 100 yards. Commonly, dead-center at twenty-five yards is about three inches high at 100 yards, and easily two or so inches to either side.
I shoot three-shot groups for sight-in, adjusting the apparent group center until I'm at the desired height above the aiming point. For me, for almost all rifles, that's two inches high at 100 yards.

If the rifle, scope and ammo are all new to me, I'll use five-shot groups in testing for accuracy. Aside from testing of loads, it indicates whether or not I need to tweak with the bedding. Once I'm satisfied, I use three-shot groups for checks of sight-in. I'm a hunter, so the most important factor of all is that the first shot from a cold barrel always goes to the intended point of impact.

So far, so good. :)
 
USUALLY the markings on the turret are to move the bullet hole on the target, BUT, it is possible they are the directions the crosshairs actually move when the turret is turned. This is the exact opposite of what you want if you think you are moving the bullet strike.
Click to expand...

Good description, that one!!

Despite that, my brain requires I read it another 3 times, slowly, before I can work it out... :o

As for the scope, it is a Burris XTR 312.

I want to use the turrets for distance adjustments rather than hold-over and the turrets are designed to be adjusted regular: big, with lots of graduations and dust-caps so meant to be used, rather than set and left.

So I hope the turrets are accurate and consistent in their adjustments.

In fact, I'd like to learn both techniques.
 
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