Initial slide velocity in a 1911?

Ruben Nasser

New member
As I understand it, the force that causes the slide/barrel to accelerate backwards (this is, reaction -recoil- from the moving bullet) ceases after the bullet exits the barrel and the pressure is released (well before unlocking, in a properly timed pistol, the slide recoiling only about 0.1"). Does this means that slide velocity is highest at this point? From this point on the slide is working against the recoil spring, friction in the locking lugs, extracting and ejecting the case, resetting the disconector, owering the hammer, etc. Do you have any idea of the slide velocity in a 1911? (I contacted a tech representative from ParaOrd, and he says that Rob Leatham told him it is about 0.06 seconds in a stock 45 1911, that would translate into 1000 rpm, and sounds logical , I was thinking above 800 rpm, higher than a typical submachine gun).
Regarding the locking time, this is covered very confusingly (...at least for me) in the Kuhnhausen book. It seems he implies that the slide and barrel are somehow in a static position while the bullet is moving in the barrel, and that they only start moving backwards when the bullet exits. This is impossible, as equilibrium of momentum dictates that the slide/barrel must be moving backwards (albeit at a much slower velocity due to their larger mass) while the bullet is moving forward. Does the recoil spring contributes in this stage to the locking of the slide/barrel?
Do you have any idea of the cycle time in a 1911?
I did some ballpark calculations and the barrel time is in the order of 0.4 miliseconds or lower, wich seems about right.
I also did a mass x velocity equilibrium equation for the bullet and powder gasses on one side, and slide/barrel on the other, getting an initial (free recoil) slide/barrel
velocity of about 28-30 fps, wich "feels" slow considering I even disregarded the influence (if any) of the recoil spring and other factors. On the other hand, this initial slide velocity is more that enough to get the pistol to cycle in .06 sec, since the average slide velocity required to complete the cycle (about 4.2") in this time is only about 5.8 fps, or 20% of this initial slide velocity.
Please help me understand this!!!

[Edited by Ruben Nasser on 02-23-2001 at 09:20 PM]
 
see the link below for photo of bullet exiting 1911 colt.
You have the same presure applied to the bullet and he cartridge, for the bullet to start moving the slide and barrel have to be static,the barrel lugs lock the slide and barrel together , the barrel wants to move forward and the slide wants to move back they locked the bullet can start moving, the barrel lugs are taking the stress, your calculations are to simplistic,To find the answers you are looking for you may have to set up a differential equation of motionof second order.
If you want read on the design of firearms
see Brasseys Essential guide to military firearms textbook
on design principles and operating methods ,
available thru amazon.com.
http://www.woodselec.com/photos/gun0011M.jpg

also see the thread below at the 1911 forum
for an ongoing discussion on this topic.
http://www.1911forum.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001998.html

I am not sure my theory is correct.
 
Let's move to this to the general handgun forum....

Hi Cmc, I also posted this question there, and Jim Keenan has already replied. Please go to:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=58494
Thanks for the link to the photo of the departing bullet (I've seen many, some at the very moment the bullet exits the muzzle). It CONFIRMS what I'm saying, the slide/barrel recoil about .1" at this moment. It is not that they are magically motionless while the bullet departs, but rather their speed is so much slower that it appears so.
I've also mentioned the other discussion on the other post as "recommended reading" before posting.
By the way, I've contacted tech staff at Para Ordnance, Springfield and Kimber. Only a Para rep. has answered yet, and he confirms that the barrel/slide start to move back at the moment of firing (albeit at a much slower velocity due to their larger mass and the spring force), and by the moment the bullet departs the muzzle the slide has recoiled a little but the locking lugs have not disengaged yet. I can forward you a copy if you want.
My calculation ARE simplistic, I'm just looking for a ballpark number of the initial slide/barrel velocity while locked.
 
Back
Top