Inherited S&W 32 Long CTG from my grandfather - need help with details!

B

Brancasterr

Inactive
Hey All!

First time here.

I just received a few heirloom guns from my grandfather's collection and I'm over the moon! I've done as much research as I can on all three, but I'm still looking for a few more details and I have a few questions to ask of those more familiar with antique guns. (Also, I'd just like to share them!)

One of those guns is the following S&W revolver.

S&W 32 Long CTG Revolver (Year undetermined)

  • Serial: On Butt - 2050xx, Behind Yoke - 99xx
  • Backstory: I honestly don't know too much about this one. I've seen it in my Grandfather's collection and know he fired it routinely up until he stopped going to the range regularly about 10 years ago. According to my Grandfather, it belonged to his father- so my great-Grandfather.
  • Questions:
    1. I'm not really sure how to date this one. Any tips?
    2. The finish is in really rough condition. I believe it is nickle plated. Is it worth it to have it professionally refinished, or should I just try to clean it up really nice and keep it from deteriorating further?
    3. What is the best way to determine if it can still be fired? I'd love to take this to the range.
    4. Supplemental to above, if I do deem it serviceable, am I going to need to use a certain type of .32 round?
    5. What would be the value in its current condition?

Link to Imgur Album because the photos are huge
 
First, the gun likely dates to the 1920's if not a bit earlier; I will try to see if I can narrow that down a bit. It was indeed nickel plated, as were many guns of the period, and the outside finish is in poor shape. The interior may be in better condition; those are fairly common signs of a police gun, carried a lot, fired very little. Obviously, I can't be sure at a distance, but I see nothing that would keep the gun from being fired, but it wouldn't hurt to have it checked out by a knowledgeable gunsmith (not the clerk at a chain sporting goods store).

The ammunition would be marked on the box as ".32 Smith & Wesson Long". The ammunition is still made and should be available on-line or at larger sporting goods stores; any dealer can order it for you. (.32 S&W (aka .32 S&W Short) will also fire in that pistol, though it has even less power than the Long cartridge.

I will note that the .32 S&W Long is at about the bottom of the cartridges considered adequate for defense today. (I don't know if people are tougher today or we just want to make sure, but that caliber was considered OK for defense and even police use a century or so ago.)

Value is tougher. While outward condition matters little when it comes to serviceability, it is important to value. I would estimate that the gun, as it is, and assuming it works, would be worth about $150-170, maybe a bit more on a trade.

Jim
 
And CTG is merely an abbreviation for "cartridge", it's no part of the model designation.
In other words, what you gave as stamped on the barrel is just the caliber.
Denis
 
Howdy

What you have there is known as the 32 Hand Ejector, Model of 1903, 5th Change. Manufactured from 1910 until 1917. Serial Numbers ran from 102501 through about 263000, with about 160,500 manufactured. That should give you a rough idea of when it was made, although S&W is famous for not always shipping guns in the order they were made.

The number on the bottom of the butt is the SN, the number under the yoke is an assembly number and is meaningless. The grips are hard rubber, which usually turns brittle with age, so be careful with them. The grips are in very nice condition, I can't see any wear on them at all.

I would take it to a gunsmith who is familiar with old revolvers before attempting to shoot it. He should be able to tell you in 30 seconds if it is safe to shoot.

As has been stated, you can fire 32 S&W Long ammunition in it, you might find an old box of 32 Colt New Police on the shelf of an old gun shop somewhere, basically the same cartridge, Colt wanted to put their own name on it. You can also fire the shorter 32 S&W round out of it.

Regarding the finish, it really is not all that bad, I have seen nickel plated revolvers in much worse condition. If it was mine, I wouldn't dream of refinishing it. It is a fine keepsake of your grandfather and his father just as it is. Keep solvents with ammonia in them away from it, ammonia can attack the underlayer of the plating.

By the way, excellent photos. Clear, well lit, and well focused. Makes identifying the gun easy. You should see some of the terrible photos that get posted here sometimes by guys wanting to know what they have.
 
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Driftwood Johnson said:
Howdy

What you have there is known as the 32 Hand Ejector, Model of 1903, 5th Change. Manufactured from 1910 until 1917. Serial Numbers ran from 102501 through about 263000, with about 160,500 manufactured. That should give you a rough idea of when it was made, although S&W is famous for not always shipping guns in the order they were made.

The number on the bottom of the butt is the SN, the number under the yoke is an assembly number and is meaningless. The grips are hard rubber, which usually turns brittle with age, so be careful with them. The grips are in very nice condition, I can't see any wear on them at all.

I would take it to a gunsmith who is familiar with old revolvers before attempting to shoot it. He should be able to tell you in 30 seconds if it is safe to shoot.

As has been stated, you can fire 32 S&W Long ammunition in it, you might find an old box of 32 Colt New Police on the shelf of an old gun shop somewhere, basically the same cartridge, Colt wanted to put their own name on it. You can also fire the shorter 32 S&W round out of it.

Regarding the finish, it really is not all that bad, I have seen nickel plated revolvers in much worse condition. If it was mine, I wouldn't dream of refinishing it. It is a fine keepsake of your grandfather and his father just as it is. Keep solvents with ammonia in them away from it, ammonia can attack the underlayer of the plating.

By the way, excellent photos. Clear, well lit, and well focused. Makes identifying the gun easy. You should see some of the terrible photos that get posted here sometimes by guys wanting to know what they have.
Click to expand...
Hey Driftwood!

Thanks for the informative response! The more I learn about these guns, the more I feel connected with my grandfather. I can't even express how honored I am that he passed these down to me.

I honestly thought this S&W was a bit younger than 1910-1917!

After many responses in a few other boards suggesting I don't touch the finish, I'll take yours as the final nail in the coffin and leave it as is. I agree that it adds a certain charm to the keepsake.

I have seen suggested that I can clean up the rust spots here and there though using some sort of solvent. What's your opinion on that? Do you know of any nickle safe solvents that'll remove those small rust spots?

Thanks again for the response! And thanks for noticing the detail I put into the photos. I figured it would be nice to the folks giving me free advice if they could see what I'm talking about clearly. ;)
 
James K said:
First, the gun likely dates to the 1920's if not a bit earlier; I will try to see if I can narrow that down a bit. It was indeed nickel plated, as were many guns of the period, and the outside finish is in poor shape. The interior may be in better condition; those are fairly common signs of a police gun, carried a lot, fired very little. Obviously, I can't be sure at a distance, but I see nothing that would keep the gun from being fired, but it wouldn't hurt to have it checked out by a knowledgeable gunsmith (not the clerk at a chain sporting goods store).

The ammunition would be marked on the box as ".32 Smith & Wesson Long". The ammunition is still made and should be available on-line or at larger sporting goods stores; any dealer can order it for you. (.32 S&W (aka .32 S&W Short) will also fire in that pistol, though it has even less power than the Long cartridge.

I will note that the .32 S&W Long is at about the bottom of the cartridges considered adequate for defense today. (I don't know if people are tougher today or we just want to make sure, but that caliber was considered OK for defense and even police use a century or so ago.)

Value is tougher. While outward condition matters little when it comes to serviceability, it is important to value. I would estimate that the gun, as it is, and assuming it works, would be worth about $150-170, maybe a bit more on a trade.

Jim
Click to expand...
Thanks again, James! Looks like Driftwood gave us a definitive answer on the age!
 
Howdy Again

Solvent will not remove rust, abrasion removes rust.

You can use the finest steel wool, 0000, and some thin oil. Rub very, very lightly, the oil carries away the particles. Be super careful with steel wool, it will remove blue and plating.

Even better would be bronze wool, which you can buy at Brownells. Not as aggressive as steel wool, but it is softer and will not attack the finish. Use a very thin gun oil, such as Rem Oil, with the bronze wool to lubricate and carry away the particles of rust. Don't try to rub away the rough surface of the rust, live with it. Just rub away any loose, reddish material.


http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/abrasives/metal-wool/bronze-wool-prod7391.aspx


Frankly, if it were my grandfather's gun, I would leave the rust in place, and just give it a light coating of oil to prevent it from rusting further. If you do remove any rust, be sure to coat it with oil or the rust will return.
 
I don't know of anything that will definitely remove rust without affecting the plating.
I would keep it wet with Kroil or other petrochemical - some say ATF - and rub it with a cloth every now and then.
 
Driftwood Johnson said:
Howdy Again

Solvent will not remove rust, abrasion removes rust.

You can use the finest steel wool, 0000, and some thin oil. Rub very, very lightly, the oil carries away the particles. Be super careful with steel wool, it will remove blue and plating.

Even better would be bronze wool, which you can buy at Brownells. Not as aggressive as steel wool, but it is softer and will not attack the finish. Use a very thin gun oil, such as Rem Oil, with the bronze wool to lubricate and carry away the particles of rust. Don't try to rub away the rough surface of the rust, live with it. Just rub away any loose, reddish material.


http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/abrasives/metal-wool/bronze-wool-prod7391.aspx


Frankly, if it were my grandfather's gun, I would leave the rust in place, and just give it a light coating of oil to prevent it from rusting further. If you do remove any rust, be sure to coat it with oil or the rust will return.
Click to expand...
Thanks again! I'll pick up some bronze wool and see what I can do to the rust spots.

I'm eager to remove them because when my grandfather gave me the gun he expressed his disappointment when he realized it had rusted a bit in storage.
 
Jim Watson said:
I don't know of anything that will definitely remove rust without affecting the plating.
I would keep it wet with Kroil or other petrochemical - some say ATF - and rub it with a cloth every now and then.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tip! I think I'll try what driftwood suggested and hit it lightly with some bronze wool. I'd at least like to get some off the speckling off.
 
A couple of minor notes to add...

Driftwood Johnson said:
...you can fire 32 S&W Long ammunition in it, you might find an old box of 32 Colt New Police on the shelf of an old gun shop somewhere, basically the same cartridge, Colt wanted to put their own name on it. You can also fire the shorter 32 S&W round out of it.
Click to expand...
Yup... and these are IMHO the ONLY cartridges you should fire in this gun.

You may run into people who advise you that's it's OK to fire .32 Auto aka .32 ACP (which may also be labeled as 7.65 Browning if it's made in Europe). This cartridge is easier to find that either .32 S&W cartridge, particularly at big-box discount sporting goods stores, as opposed to dedicated gun shops or mail-order houses.

DON'T LISTEN TO THESE PEOPLE. :rolleyes:

In most cases, the cartridge will fire, a bullet will come out of the barrel in the general direction of the target, and the revolver won't catastrophically explode in the process. However, accuracy will usually be poor because of the long distance the bullet must travel before it engages the rifling. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, the cases may stick in the cylinder due to the very small rim on .32 Auto cases. This may cause difficult-to-repair damage to the ejector star. :(

Bottom line: Use appropriate ammunition! .32 S&W Long actually isn't that much harder to find or more expensive than .32 Auto if you mail-order.

Lastly, an important safety note: Pre-1918 Smith & Wessons such as this one do NOT incorporate a positive hammer block or a transfer bar. There is a rebounding hammer mechanism, but it is NOT adequate to prevent an accidental discharge if the revolver is dropped and the hammer spur strikes a hard surface. To positively prevent it from firing if dropped, the revolver should be carried "five-up" with an empty chamber under the hammer. Only load all six chambers if you plan to fire them all immediately.
 
I fired maybe 150 rounds of .32 S&W out of my .32 Long Regulation Police over the years.

I didn't notice any real decline in accuracy over factory .32 Long.
 
There are chemicals that dissolve rust.
Using steel wool or bronze wool with oil creates a paste of iron oxide. Iron oxide is the active ingredient in jeweler's rouge-a polish.
Use the steel/bronze wool dry. THEN use a light oil like WD 40 on a cloth.
If the gun is sentimentally important to you, I recommend sending it to Ford's Refinishing and having it replated with nickel. They do a very good job.
 
They USED to do a good job.

Horror stories on a Colt forum about hugely botched Ford's refinishes.
Denis
 
For rust spots use any good light oil and the edge of a copper penny. Make sure it is copper, pre-1974, I think. Works great and doesn't mar the finish (some folks get to honking away with the steel wool and really scratch things up). A penny, some 3-in-1, and a good movie can do wonders in an evening.
 
Links to ammo: http://ammoseek.com/ammo/32sw-long

I will note that the .32 S&W Long is at about the bottom of the cartridges considered adequate for defense today. (I don't know if people are tougher today or we just want to make sure, but that caliber was considered OK for defense and even police use a century or so ago.)
Click to expand...

Dad has an old H&R top break in this caliber. He says when he got the gun as a kid, he fired a couple shots at a piece of wood, and all the bullets bounced off.

I think the weaker pistols had more of a deterrent power than they do today. Back then if ya got shot, you faced the prospect of having the bullet dug outta ya without pain killers or anesthetic. Or dying a horrible lingering death from infection. Now, even with much more advanced bullets, 4 out of 5 criminals shot by the police don't die.

Thanks in advance for the inevitable corrections...
 
"Dad has an old H&R top break in this caliber. He says when he got the gun as a kid, he fired a couple shots at a piece of wood, and all the bullets bounced off."

I suspect that your Dad actually had a .32 S&W, not a .32 Long.

The .32 S&W is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a powerhouse. A good load for the .32 S&W would barely break 700 fps, and in a short-barreled revolver most would be hard pressed to do much over 600 fps.

The .32 Long, on the other hand, is far* more powerful and can easily push 800 fps. depending on the load and barrel length.


*Far being a highly relative term in the case of the .32s... :p
 
There are few guns I like shooting more than a little 32. Great shooters and are perfect for young or new shooters who are being introduced to hand guns. I have a few 32's and never plan on selling them, they will be ready when I cant shoot bigger calibers anymore.

I am glad you decided not to refinish the weapon, it adds character in my opinion as long as its good ole fashion wear and not neglect. Get out there and go shooting!
 
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