Information sought on Raven Arms MP 25 (Phoenix Arms??)

B

bedbugbilly

New member
I had an acquaintance ask me if I could locate a magazine for her .25 semi-auto "Raven Arms MP 25". The pistol belonged to her father (now deceased) and she wasn't able to locate the magazine for it.

I know nothing about these little semi-autos. I did a search on GB and one was listed as well as parts. On flea bay, magazines are available. From what I can determine, these were available in both blue and nickel plated versions. I'm also assuming that they were a inexpensive handgun from the get go.

On one listing, it mentioned "Phoenix Arms" - did they manufacture it?

She just wants to get a magazine for it so she can make it a "night stand" gun - she lives alone. The pistol has sentimental value to her - which I fully understand. I'm hoping got convince her to get a .380 or a 38 spl. but she'd like a magazine to at least make her Dad's pistol "complete".

Anybody out there who can educate me on this particular handgun? Do they function well or are they unreliable?

Any information greatly appreciated! Thanks! :)
 
The Raven Arms pistols don't have the best of reputations, but if you have one that works well, it will serve its purpose dependably.

The Phoenix Arms mags won't work. I have seen Raven Arms mags at guns shows quite a bit, so I would imaging they are easy enough to find.

Or you could check out this page:
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/ad/172470.htm
 
The Ravens mostly don't work that well. Even when they do, their useful life is short. Parts, especially certain parts which break or are lost often, are getting ever harder to come by.
We decided to stop working on them at all several years ago.
This is not to mention that even the. 22lr has noticeably more stopping power than. 25acp.
 
Thank you fellas - greatly appreciate the info. And thank you for the link - I hadn't even given Numrich a thought! :eek:

From the one I saw pictured on GB, I sort of thought they were pretty much a disposable Saturday night special. I'll let her know where she can order a magazine from and then she can do what she wants to. If it were me, I'd forget about getting a magazine, just stick it in a drawer and forget about it. But, you know how "sentiment" can be . . . .

And, I agree on the .25 ACP. About the only use I have for that cartridge is that the casings make nice powder dippers for small charges for re-loading! :D

Thank you again - greatly appreciate it.
 
(.22LR)
40 gr (3 g) Solid[1] 1,200 ft/s (370 m/s) 104 ft·lbf (141 J)
38 gr (2 g) Copper-plated HP[1] 1,260 ft/s (380 m/s) 134 ft·lbf (182 J)
31 gr (2 g) Copper-plated HP[1] 1,430 ft/s (440 m/s) 141 ft·lbf (191 J)
30 gr (2 g) Copper-plated RN[2] 1,750 ft/s (530 m/s) 204 ft·lbf (277 J)
32 gr (2 g) Copper-plated HP[2] 1,640 ft/s (500 m/s) 191 ft·lbf (259 J
(.25ACP)
35 gr (2 g) Safety [1] 1,100 ft/s (340 m/s) 94 ft·lbf (127 J)
35 gr (2 g) JHP 900 ft/s (270 m/s) 63 ft·lbf (85 J)
45 gr (3 g) JHP 815 ft/s (248 m/s) 66 ft·lbf (89 J)
50 gr (3 g) FMJ 760 ft/s (230 m/s) 65 ft·lbf (88 J)

granted, these numbers are likely rifle length for the 22 and pistol for the .25, but still a bit more

**just checked ballistics by the inch and the 22lr is about 10-15% faster with a 10-15% smaller bullet from a 5", so I guess they are close to a wash. at this point it would probably depend on bullet shape and build to constitute one as better than the other for SD.
 
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Phoenix Arms literally rose from the ashes of what was Raven Arms after the factory was destroyed by fire. Phoenix bought the designs of George Jennings and modified them to produce their own take on the Raven design. As mentioned, Ravens are considered cheap guns and don't have the best of reputations.

I bought a MP25 from my grandfather many years ago for $45, and while the pistol shoots fairly reliably, it's easy to tell it's a cheaply made gun. I haven't shot mine in years, and keep it around only because it has sentimental value to me. Plus, I couldn't get much for it even if I did try to sell it.
 
The .22LR does not have "noticeably" more power than the .25 acp. Do your research!
Click to expand...

Thank you Bill people need to stop giving rifle velocity for 22 LR against a 25 in a 2 1/2" or so barrel .
 
They were the cheap gun of choice for most of the armed hooks I arrested in the 80's. Worked quite a few shootings involving them too. A couple observations:

They generally go bang and are pretty reliable. Don't think they would hold up for a long life though. But, as heavy as they are, they are not prone to limp wristing.
Magazines, on the street, are loaded with whatever may fit the magazine. Ball, HP, whatever.
A .25 will kill someone.
A .25 will not kill someone.
I think they originally shipped in a Crown Royal bag. At least 90% of them I saw were packaged that way.
 
I ran into many Raven .25s in my police career also.
About the only good thing I can say about a Raven is that it always
seemed to work on the first round.
If I remember right the Jennings and Titan .22s were also popular with
street thugs.
None are worth betting your life on.
I worked two cases where the "victims" were shot right through the heart
with a .22 l.r. pocket auto and both survived.
I recall one shot to the right temple with a Raven .25 and the guy made it though blind.
It's unlikley any of the cheap pocket autos were ever fired more than
a few times, if at all.
Numrich would be your best bet & there were lots of Raven pistols made.
 
About all I know about Ravens is seeing an article in Gun Test magazine many years ago where they rated the Raven 25 over an AMT Hardballer (SS, 1911) in 45 ACP. The reason given was the Raven at least worked which was more than they were willing to say about the AMT.

That must have been back in the 80's...heaven only knows why I remember it. Probably because I had been tempted to buy a Raven (or an RG-22) back in the day when I was really broke but wanted a gun. IIRC, those sold for about $30.00, but I couldn't afford even that back then.

Probably a good thing in the long run, although I doubt I'd have ever fired either of them.
 
Thank you all for the info on the "Raven" - greatly appreciated.

I have passed the information on to my friend and from there, the choice is her's. I have advised her that she needs to consider a different handgun and or shot gun for HD and that she should at least take a firearms safety class taught by a certified instructor. I have also offered to work with her in learning how to shoot both revolver and semi-auto so she would at least be familiar with various calibers available - myself, I mainly shoot 38 Spl./ .357 and 9mm. Again, the ball is in her court now.

Folks - all I wanted was some information on the Raven - not to start up another "controversy" post over which cartridge is better - 22 LR or 25 ACP. I don't know why some have to turn a simple inquiry into a "debate". . . human nature I guess?? :roll eyes:

jeager106 - your comments brought back a lot of memories. I worked ambulance as well as fire/fire rescue for a number of years. During that time, I saw many similar things such as you describe. Shootings of any type - accidental or on purpose were never a "pleasant run" nor was being shot at (which happened once and left a life long lasting impression on me). Folks can "debate" all they want on guns, cartridges, etc. but there is no "set rule" on what the outcome will be . . . and whatever the outcome is . . . it is a "tragedy" for everyone involved - the shooter, the victim, their families and friends and those charged with handling the situation. You can debate and "arm chair quarterback" all you want on statistics, ballistics, etc. but it does't meat squat - each "incident" is going to be different.

Thanks again for those that educated me on the Raven and Phoenix - greatly appreciate it. :)
 
A picture would be nice. Should it be the same as mine, sliding safety switch, I can make a comment. The safety tends to engage before the mag becomes empty. :( Otherwise no issues with mine. Round count during its life has been only a mag or so.

Mags might be found at some gun shows.
 
I had one given to me by a relative. I worked on it and gave it back. Cheaper than Dirt used to have them from time to time and if you search for them you will find a guy in NJ that works on Ravens and sells all the parts and magazines that go with it.

They sell for about $25-50 in the pawn shops in the low income part of town. The gun's parts are made of very soft pot metal. The one I had jammed like crazy but it got it to jam a little less. I was around when you could buy one of this in a drug store, gas station or just about anywhere before they started with all that FFL nonsense. :) They were very popular with people who were not interested in a reload and wanted a cheap gun that could be used once and then tossed into the river with no major loss of money. :)
 
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