Info about the ,357SIG [[round?]]

It's supposed to be comparable to the .357 magnum in all respects. It's actually a .40 necked down to a 9mm. It gives you a 9mm sized bullet, but moving a lot faster. Deeper hole, but not as big.

I don't own one yet because I was/am concerned about the staying power of the round. Right now, there is plenty of ammo available, however, it's not nearly as plentiful or cheap as 9mm or .40 ammo.

Finally, keep in mind that you can sometimes use .40 mags to hold .357 sig rounds (ie, my sig 229 mags are marked ".40/.357"), and often a simple barrel exchange is all you need fire a .357 out of a .40 gun.
 
i like the balistics of the .357sig. most of my guns are in 9mm but i wouldn't mind having a .357sig. the .357sig is either equal or better than the .357mag especially since it has less recoil, muzzle blast, and holds more rounds than a .357mag.

i personally don't feel that there's much of a difference between all defense calibers in handguns from the 9mm to the .45 and anything in between. so i feel safe with a 9mm and i also get cheaper target practice, less recoil and more rounds in the gun. but if i wanted something more powerful than the 9 i'd go with the .357sig.

[This message has been edited by Russell92 (edited August 15, 2000).]
 
I don't own a .357 sig but have done a fair amount of readin about the cartridge. Info from SIG and powder mfgrs handbooks indicates to me that it is a rather peppy little 9mm. I don't see the comparison with the .357mag ballisticly. Looks more like a hot .38spec to me.

The 124/125 gr bullet seems to give the best performance....around 1400fps. Upper moderate .357mag load from Winchester puts the 125gr out at 1800fps. Also Winchester shows hot .357mag load 170gr at 1390fps.

Not slammin the .357 sig, just don't think it compares to the .357mag on the top end and the .357mag can be downloaded to give light recoil and noise.

.357mag autoloaders are few and far between, and are a handfull due to the long cartridge.

Sam...my favorite 9mm is the 9X32R

[This message has been edited by C.R.Sam (edited August 15, 2000).]
 
The 357SIG was made to duplicate the 125 gr. .357 Magnum round in an autoloader, which it does with great results. In some instances, the 125 gr. 357SIG is actually better than the magnum cartridge.....on paper anyway. ;) Recoil is about the same as the .40 and muzzle blast is less than the .357Mag, but it's still VERY LOUD! The biggest downside is that the SIG round doesn't work as well with heavier bullets.

The 357SIG is not a necked-down .40 case. These cases are built longer than the typical .40 with thicker walls (to contain the pressure) and then are necked down to .355 caliber (9mm).

Every .40 caliber pistol I've ever seen can be converted to 357SIG with only a quick barrel change. There's no need to buy different mags or followers either.

Ammo is becoming more available now at a good price. A box of 357SIG and .40S&W cost the same here.

[This message has been edited by .357SIG (edited August 15, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C.R.Sam:


Upper moderate .357mag load from Winchester puts the 125gr out at 1800fps. Also Winchester shows hot .357mag load 170gr at 1390fps.

[/quote]

Wow! The Guns and Ammo "2000 Handgun Buyers Guide" did a comparison and found them to be about neck and neck, but they weren't running anywhere near the velocit you report.

For what it's worth, the Guide's comparison of Winchester 125 gr. FMJ:

.357 SIG
SIG P239 1301 fps
S & W Sigma 1310 fps
Glock G 31 1354 fps

.357 Magnum
Colt D 1267 fps
S & W M 65 1360 fps
Ruger Gp 100 1387 fps

More or less neck and neck.

Munir





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ahlan wa sahlan
PCV Yemen 1984-86
 
The round was designed with ONE initial purpose in mind when Sig and Federal collaborated on it:

To mimic the ballistics of the popular Remington and Federal 125-gr. JSP .357 Mag. loads that were common police fodder for many years.

In that respect, the round did what it was supposed to do.

When I worked for American Rifleman I was fortunate enough to see, and fire, one of the very first Sig .357s in the country.



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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
Let's set the record straight for all you gun rag ballistic groupies. A 357 Sig is a great defensive round. It duplicates a DEFENSIVE 357 Magnum load. If you are into hair splitting, maybe it exceeds it a bit. Who cares! But the bottom line is, there is no way in hell that a 357 Sig is going to out perform a true full power 357 Magnum load. ALL commercial ammunition is a downgrade from the original 357 Magnum load. A 42000 CUP load is what 357 should be and at those levels the Sig ain't sh@@. Here is some load data from the latest Hodgdon reloading manual. This is for S&W N frames, Rugers or stronger guns only (true 357 Magnum platforms). As you can see, at over 1900 FPS from a 6 inch barrel, the 357 Sig does not even come close. These are NOT typo's, they are real loads.

Hodgdonload.JPG


Robert
 
Robert...like I said..i'm a .357 mag man....but I saw the .357SIG mentioned and had hoped it was a 357 variant autoloader. In a way it is...sounds better than the 9mm and the .40. Just shopping around and doing some comparisons. :)
 
I'm not knocking the cartridge. Three fifty-seven Sig is a very good defensive round. It may even be the best. Who knows? But the Sig cartridge is nothing more than a moderately powered 357 Magnum. The same bull is preached about 10mm, that it's a 41 Magnum. Again, not true. A great cartridge, but it cannot be compared to a full throttle 41 Magnum. It gets left in the dust. That is exactly what the 357 Magnum does to the Sig. They're good cartridges with bad comparisons.

Compare 357 sig with 357 Magnum defensive loads (still the benchmark cartridge!), 40 S&W, 9mm or 45 acp. These cartridges are all in the same ballpark and can be compared equally.

Although the 357 Sig may be ballistically better that the 40 S&W, (splitting hairs again), the forty continues to be the most popular defensive cartridge in America. The Sig may also be a bit more reliable (a non issue in a modern gun), there is a KBM cloud that hangs over the 357 Sig cartridge. Especially when reloaded. Which brings up another issue. Neck down cartridges are a pain in the butt to reload.

Get a 40! And if you are considering a full size platform, 45.

Robert



[This message has been edited by Robert the41MagFan (edited August 16, 2000).]
 
Thanks for the data Robert
The moderate load I used was 1800fps, 125gr at only 32,000 pressure using W296 powder. That's 10,000 below max. Doable in a K frame.

Some of my old .38 spec hi velocity loads seem to match the .357 sig pretty closely. And .38spec 158gr JHP at 1200+ is a good defensive load. Not for J frames tho.

Sam...The 9X29R may be 98 years old but it ain't dead yet.
 
Robert,

I think it was in Handguns magazine a few months ago that an article ran about "defensive loads". The author did a comparison based on the reports of police officer-involved shootings (cops shooting BG's, not the other way around), and his data showed that the .40 S&W with 155-gr JHP's was the best one-shot stopper out there.

Second: .357 magnum with 125-gr JHP's.

Third: .40 S&W with 165-gr JHP's.

Fourth: .45 ACP with 230-gr JHP's.

ALL of those loads achieved at least 94% in one-shot stops, with the top performer topping out at 97%. That's not a big spread, in my opinion.

The next load down the list was 9mm +P 115-gr. JHP's, and it was just over 90% if I recall correctly.

Food for thought.
 
The 357 SIG was to match the 357 Mag duty loads used (very effectivley BTW) by most cops from 3-4 inch guns. It does just that. From my SIG 229 and Ruger GP100 the velocity is the same w most 125 loads.

I didn't/don't want to shoot a pedal to the metal 357 load for the same reason I didn't/don't use a 41/44 Magnum for personal defense.

Depending on the loads you select, you can get identical terminal ballistic performance
from the 357 SIG, Magnum and 40S&W. I doubt the bad guys will feel any differnence.

It's here to stay. Proload and Black Hills just added it. A couple more states might switch by the end of the year to join Texas, New Mexico, Virginia and Delaware.

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>>>>---->
http://home.att.net/~brokenarrrow/
 
The .357 Mag can overpower the .357 Sig, especially in heavier bullets.

But, I have not seen a .357 Magnum that can push a 125gr bullet 1450fps out of a sub-three (3!) inch revolver barrel (with factory ammo no less).
In that regard, I do think that .357 Sig has the .357 Magnum beaten.

A 4 inch semi-auto pistol barrel is equivalent to about a 2.5 - 3 inch revolver barrel (because the chamber on a pistol counts as part of the barrel length whereas the revolver does not count the cylindar/chamber in the barrel length).

I have not seen a .357 Magnum snubby (with a 2.5 inch barrel) that can push a 125gr bullet to 1450fps, But on the other hand I have seen an equivalent-length .357 Sig that can do that velocity with factory ammo.

This is what the .357 Sig was modeled to do: push a 125gr bullet very fast from a compact semi auto (with more ammo and much less recoil than the revolver as well).
The .357 Sig does what it is meant to do very well, arguably a lot better than the .357 Magnum, in every regard.



Also, my Glock 35 .357 Sig with a 5.5 inch barrel (only equivalent to about a 4 inch barrel on a revolver!)) pushes a 125gr factory load at over 1600 fps. That is still only a 5.5 inch barrel, including the chamber, and with factory ammo. That aint too bad. I am sure that with a longer barrel like a revolver has, and non-factory ammo, that it could go much faster.



[This message has been edited by DerGlockenpooper (edited August 16, 2000).]
 
From a stats point of view, Federal and Sig did their homework. This load is hot, and it is bad bad bad. I love it!! Probably my favorite round.

That being said, there's one HUGE drawback to this load. I can achieve close to it in a .40 for quite a bit cheaper. Also, if you reload, you'll probably do the whole "it doesn't seat right" griping. Comments like that annoy me, what about .223's, 308's? They are all necked. So very bad arguement.

But I will tell you what has happened in my area and why I have moved from looking at the .357 Sig to the .40SW.

It was about $11.50/box at the local gun store about 3-4 months ago for a box of .357Sig Speer's. Now? $16.50 as of last week!!! WOW!! For that price, I can shoot 2 boxes of the .40 180grs!!! The popularity of that round and the shortage of it's availability seems to be it's own worst enemy.

So, until the price matches that of the .40's, my wallet can't afford it.

That being said though, here's the blessing. Get something in a .40 like an HK, Glock, Sig etc... and when the price of the .357Sig drops, you just do a barrel swap, and pow! You have 2 guns in one, with two really bad-a$$ calibers.

This I think is one of the best defensive you can buy for yourself.

.357Sig in the Corbon BeeSafe Stuff. http://www.shooterstore.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=69&Product_ID=2871&CATID=339

Pre-fragmented softpoint, 1650ft/522ft-lbs of energy. That is some serious anti-perp round!!!

Albert

[This message has been edited by twoblink (edited August 16, 2000).]
 
Here is some actual chrono data for the 357 sig that I did. All you revolver guys that say hand loads in the 357 mag are going 1800 fps and you say the sig does not come close. Only two powders I know will do that and only from a 6 inch or longer barrel my glock 24 with a 6 inch 357 sig barrel will push a 125 grain bullet at 1600 fps thats right about where most 357 mag handloads are at except with 296 or H 110. And those 1800 fps 357 mag velocities are advertised I doubt they are going that fast.
PAT

handloads and a few factory rounds in 357 sig in all my 357 sig over a chrono, here is the data.

Federal 150 grain jhp's slowpokes in a 6-inch kkm barrel in a 24 upper
Average 1135 fps

Federal 125 grain jhp

Sig 239 = 1347
Glock 31 = 1412
Glock 24 upper KKM barrel= 1504

Corbon 125 grain

Sig 239 = 1346
Sig 229 sport = 1454
Glock 31 = 1430
Glock 24 upper KKM barrel = 1508

125 grain speer golddot

Sig 239 = 1335

Glock 31 = 1429

Sig 229 Sport = 1439

Glock 24 with kkm barrel = 1525

Handloads with Power pistol at just below max from Alliants manual. Note Horndays xtp was loaded slightly lighter due to hornadys manual. All fired in longlside 24

125 grain Sierra = 1601

125 grain Gold Dot = 1579

124 grain xtp = 1537


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I intend to go into harms way.
 
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