Indianapolis First Monday - didn't quite turn out like they planned

Jeff OTMG

New member
I was able to attend the First Monday event (circus?) at Butler University in Indianapolis last night put on by the Indiana Citizens Concerned about Gun Violence (don't ask, I don't know where they came from, don't care, and we will probably not hear from them again). They had invited a group of candidates to make statements about gun issues, the forum was to be about gun 'violence' and what to do about it. Of more than a dozen candidates, half of them were Libertarians. Anyone see where this is going? The moderator was blatantly anti-gun and there were about 4 anti's on the panel. In the audience I counted 7 people who were there to support the anti side, about 15 students (some who left when they saw how it was going), and more of us than I expected, about a dozen. We were quiet as the moderator, obviously not happy with the panel who showed up, allowed all equal time for statements. A Libertarian congressional candidate brought a sign with the 'gun free home' wording on it and it got a big laugh and applause. This is when I, and the 7 anti's, realized that they were outnumbered. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! A couple of anti students had some questions which were trounced by the pro-gunners on the panel. One girl asked what they candidates would do to prevent gun violence if elected, more on her later. We were scattered about the room. The moderator kept calling on people and EVERYONE was a pro-gun person!!! He was not happy about this. He finally made a comment that the Supreme Court had ruled that the 2nd Amendment did not permit the private ownership of firearms, at which point 4 of us, including 2 members of the panel, jumped to their feet to take him to task on it. It was amusing to see the moderator startle so easily. He was slammed on this issue and to get out of it simply stated that we would not discuss the 2nd Amendment, that we were here to discuss 'gun violence'. I think this outburst scared any of the anti's into just sitting quietly when they saw how we react to lies and how well informed we were. Of course the fact that they were bunched together on the 2nd row and we were all over the room made it seem like there were more of us.

As for the girl who asked what the candidates could do? She was told that you can't legislate morality. No law is going to stop violent behavior. And then it was my turn. I introduced myself and gave them my background. I told them that this forum was to be about gun violence and what could be done to stop it. I was doing something about it. I am teaching 500 K-5 grade students the Eddie the Eagle Gunsafe Program in an inner city school. The state senator was there whose district the school is in. I told them that these children have been effectively deserted by their parents. They have no positive roll models in their lives. If you want something done, don't complain about it, get out there and do something to teach the high risk kids right from wrong. There is a HUGE problem in the black community in Indianapolis. I pointed them to the U.S. Dept of Justice Bureau of Statistics which show white homicide rates have been gradually declining over the last 20 years, while rates in the black community are 7 to 13 times higher http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm The answer isn't in legislation. It is in your involvement in the community. Don't complain about it, do something. Go to an inner city school and sign up to become a mentor. Take action to stop all violence. At that point the moderator decided that this wasn't going as well as he had hoped and the forum was closed. All in all it was a good night.
 
BRAVO BRAVO keep up the good work!!

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"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."

--Ayn Rand, in "The Nature of Government"

http://hometown.aol.com//jsax13/web.html
Member NRA, GOA, JPFO, SAF, and CCRKBA.
 
That's great, Jeff! Thad called me earlier today and told me about it. I missed a great time. :( But I didn't have much choice, I had a sick son and didn't get him home from the doc's until 6:30. I think you guys did a fantastic job and changed a few young minds. You also put some central Indiana gun grabbers on notice! :D

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Remember: First you pillage ... then you burn!
 
Way to go!

An interesting thing about anti-gunners. The media accept their crackpot ideas so uncritically, and the "forums" of anti-gunners are so skewed, that they're simply not accustomed to having to defend their positions rationally.
 
Well done! be ready for the next anti-gun forum, because there will be more...

A similar thing happened to us in Houston on Monday night. Our group of pro-rights folks outnumbered and outmatched theirs - so they abruptly ended the meetin an hour early. :D

Nanner nanner :p

CMOS

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NRA? Good. Now join the GOA!

The NRA is our shield, the GOA will be our sword.
 
I was the respondent who stated that you cannot legislate morality, and trounced that damn psychiatrist--would you want him working on YOUR family if the unthinkable happened? I think not. I've debated with him previously. He knows what the 2nd Amendment means, he just doesn't care.

this letter was sent to the Indpls Star:
I am a 15-year veteran of the Army and the Air Force who has extensively used firearms and studied firearms law. Recently, I was invited to attend a candidate’s forum sponsored by the Indiana Citizens Concerned About Gun Violence.

Instead of asking relevant questions to my fellow panelists and myself, the meeting became a self-congratulatory, emotion-laden appeal for “common sense” gun legislation - the same kind that caused crime to increase in Australia, Britain, California, and Washington DC. As an immigrant, I still have a British passport. I know firsthand of what I speak.

When it became obvious that 80% of the panelists disagreed with the statements from the audience, the audience became less pleasant. They asked why we opposed gun control. We spoke of privacy, civil rights, and self defense. They laughed.

They asked what we offered, if not gun control. We spoke of personal responsibility, self discipline, and education. They agreed that the last was acceptable, but implied only if conducted on their terms, meaning “guns are bad and so is anyone who has one.”

We spoke of history - of how the Zulus, the German Jews, the Russian dissidents, the Chinese Nationalists, the elite of Cambodia, the natives of Guatemala and others were disarmed by gun control then exterminated.

We spoke of the racist basis of US gun control - that a requirement to “be of good moral character” to carry a gun was created in the aftermath of the Civil War and meant “be white.” They laughed at history.

It’s rude to invite candidates to a “forum” and subject them to thirty minutes of demagoguery. It’s insulting to ignore a candidate’s speech to the point that one asks him a question he answered specifically in his statement. It is degrading in the extreme to snicker at a candidate’s speech, especially when he provides credentials as to his expertise in a subject; credentials the audience lacks. To do this to invited guests sinks to a low I would never have expected.

I couldn’t believe the outright racist statement that “if we took a bunch of black people to buy guns at a gun show, we’d quickly see them shut down the gun shows.” For the speaker’s information, there are many African-American attendees at gun shows, no worse and no better than any other group. Their blood is red and their money is green.

There was the young lady who claimed to have read Professor John Lott’s “More Guns, Less Crime” and found it “amusing to say the least.” Professor Lott himself was an anti-gun researcher whose integrity and research led him to change his views. So far, the best “experts” her side has claim that “not as many lives have been saved as Professor Lott claims.” If she can refute him, I welcome a copy of her work for my own research, as will many others. And I’m curious as to how she explains the continuing drop in crime in states that have enacted concealed carry laws.

Then of course, were the three college women who asked me questions, snickered and ridiculed my responses, and responded to my offer of technical information free from politics, simply as educational material with a frosty “no thank you” and schmaltzy tears. Thanks for your open minds, ladies.

I suppose we can thank our deity of choice that this group numbers less than 30. That speaks volumes of the rationality of Hoosiers, and may explain why our crime rate is far lower than the national average. Or maybe it’s because we haven’t adopted any “common sense” victim disarmament laws that violate privacy, civil rights, and human decency.

In short, the Indiana Citizens Concerned About Gun Violence audience was rude; ignorant of history, law, and firearms; smugly convinced of their own moral superiority; and unwilling and unprepared to actually discuss their objections to the panelists. Most of them left before we could ask for further individual debate.

Therefore, I offer the following challenge again, to them or any other group, this time publicly:

(1) Name one US jurisdiction where gun control has reduced crime, and I will donate $100 cash to your organization. First come, first served.
(2) Accept a standing invitation from every gun show coordinator in the state to visit a show at their expense, and find a single case of illegal firearms transactions by a dealer. Many of the customers are police officers. Do you suggest they are NOT enforcing the law?
(3) Explain the basis of the ridiculously false claim “13 children a day killed by accidental gunshots” when the CDC reports the figure as 25-30 per year.

If gun control advocates cannot answer this challenge, then they should cease making untrue statements, as knowingly making such is called lying, and cease treating a class of people--gun owners--as less than human. This is called bigotry.


Michael Z. Williamson
mzwilliamson@yahoo.com
PO Box 1605
Indpls, IN 46206

see my articles on http://www.keepandbeararms.com
and please vote for me
Indiana State Senate District 36--south Indy and Johnson County

thanks

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“It is criminal not to teach a man to defend himself when he is the
constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a
shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law.”--Malcolm X
 
Jeff OTMG-- thnaks for your spirited defense of all our rights-
Michael, welcome, and if you lived where I vote, you'd get mine. K&BA is a fine site, I refer people there all the time.
The scorn, contempt, ridicule and the very dismissal of our arguments ( and indeed our value as fellow citizens and human beings ) by our opponents should ring alarm bells. I am tempted to think we shouldn't try to sway them ( the undecided are better targets ) and should never compromise or give an inch...
...they've already taken a mile---
 
Jeff OTMG,

Good on you guys. 'Looks like your buddy madmike is a good one to have on our side.

Welcome to TFL, Mike.

Jeff, one more load to test and I'll have a report on the Springco for you.
 
Guys, madmike KICKED SOME SERIOUS BUTT on that panel. He was so prepared you couldn't believe it. The anti's couldn't get away with anything. It was a great night and I don't think Indiana will ever see another 'first Monday' as a result. They had NOTHING!!!
 
Thanks, all. Unfortunately, none of them asked any meaningful questions so I could REALLY slam them, like:

"What's your position on registration of gun owners?"

"Actually, I think we should treat guns and internet porn the same way--there is no reason for anyone logging online not to submit to a reasonable fingerprinting and background check, just to ensure they aren't a child predator. Only an extremist would oppose reasonable precautions like that. Also, I think every computer user should be able to pick one website or newsgroup a month to subscribe to, just to stop the proliferation of anti-government rhetoric online."

THAT would leave them speechless. Just in case anyone couldn't pick up on it, the response is sarcastic, not an actual belief.

Anyone else catch the idiotic Rep from Gary, IN talking about illegal "Isuzus"?

I think he meant "Uzis." With ignorance like that, we'll win if we keep at it.

Here's a topic for someone to run with:
The antis have their prayer vigils...why don't WE start? At every incident where a gun COULD HAVE BEEN USED or a trigger lock kept someone defenseless or failed and caused an accidental discharge...make THEM go on the defensive. WE'll need big press releases for every one, of course.
 
OutDamnedStanding, gentlemen. Thank you, and continue to fight the good fight, even in the face of apathy and disinformation.

Jarhead out.

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Happiness is interlocking fields of fire.
 
Sarcastic Humor by ernest2

How, oh how, can we ever defeat the Borg, er, Gore, when the Gore Socialist Collective Cubes have access to the
Mind Warping Politically Correct Brain Control TV Media Ray
and we do not even have one opperational anti human rights gun law --clokeing shield.

We here at StarGun Fleet and the United Federation of Lawfully Gun Owning Planets are hindered by being forced to use technology vastly obsolete and inferior to the Mind Warping Politically Correct Brain Control TV Media Ray used by the Gore Collective against us.

Tune in next week for the next exciting
eposode of Stargun Trek and see what anti civil gun rights attacks next befalls the crew of the USS Second Ammendment Accending
and the valiant Captian Heston , Commanding.
 
JeffOTMG.....

Way to go dude..!!!! Sounds like you and MadMike had fun. :)

See ya in Tulsa at the big one. I'll be at the Gun Pro's Isle.

Leon.....
 
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