Indexing problem, need to stretch the pawl
- Thread starter noelf2
- Start date
Since I don't know your firearm I don't want to offer advice but remember you are dealing with a near clock-like mechanism where everything is tied together, change one thing and it effects something else.
An example might be a manufacturer's flaw on the racket teeth- one is a little off which creates an indexing problem on only one chamber. Let's say the hand is lengthen. That probably won't solve the problem. in fact if it makes the cylinder start rotating before the bolt fully drops- it can create more problems. On some handguns the end of the hand starts the cylinder rotating but then slides off the ratchet teeth and the side (thickness) of the hand keeps moving the cylinder into the final position so lengthning the hand does nothing.
In short, I'd try to re-state what the problem is in very fine terms, plus the model gun, etc and ask lots of questions and wait for a lot of answers and then think about what needs to be done prior to making any changes.
An example might be a manufacturer's flaw on the racket teeth- one is a little off which creates an indexing problem on only one chamber. Let's say the hand is lengthen. That probably won't solve the problem. in fact if it makes the cylinder start rotating before the bolt fully drops- it can create more problems. On some handguns the end of the hand starts the cylinder rotating but then slides off the ratchet teeth and the side (thickness) of the hand keeps moving the cylinder into the final position so lengthning the hand does nothing.
In short, I'd try to re-state what the problem is in very fine terms, plus the model gun, etc and ask lots of questions and wait for a lot of answers and then think about what needs to be done prior to making any changes.
Dave plus one but I also know that...
...Noel knows his stuff.
My thought is...Go buy a new hand and file it until it works while keeping in mind, Dave's encouragement to consider the interaction of the parts at each reassembly.
I am assuming the new hand will be longer than necessary which means some filing is in order as is the case in most hand replacements.
The metalurgy in the hand is critical and indeed I think it is at the heart of most of the criticisms against ASM for soft internal parts.
I think you may find that not only is the length critical, the striking angle of the face can effect the smoothness of operation.
I found that in a small revolver (a five shot .36) I actually rounded the face of the hand.
...Noel knows his stuff.
My thought is...Go buy a new hand and file it until it works while keeping in mind, Dave's encouragement to consider the interaction of the parts at each reassembly.
I am assuming the new hand will be longer than necessary which means some filing is in order as is the case in most hand replacements.
The metalurgy in the hand is critical and indeed I think it is at the heart of most of the criticisms against ASM for soft internal parts.
I think you may find that not only is the length critical, the striking angle of the face can effect the smoothness of operation.
I found that in a small revolver (a five shot .36) I actually rounded the face of the hand.
Dave, thanks for the concern. I'm the one that changed things (put a Howell's converter on and put the "perfectly working" cap and ball cylinder aside). The carbine is the exact same as a uberti 1958 internally. When cocking the hammer slowly, the cylinder stops just a minute minute fraction from full lockup, same on all chambers. If cycled quickly, inertia carries it the rest of the way to full lock up on all chambers. Should just require a slight stretch to the pawl to fix it. Hate to send it to a smith to do it, and really need to learn this stuff for myself anyway.
Doc, I could try a new pawl and file it down, but if I can stretch this one so it will work with both the C&B and Conversion it'll be a lot cheaper. If I wreck it (which I will try hardest not to do) then I'll need to send it to a smith and pay what I would have paid in the first place. So, I'm willing to give it a try.
Doc, I could try a new pawl and file it down, but if I can stretch this one so it will work with both the C&B and Conversion it'll be a lot cheaper. If I wreck it (which I will try hardest not to do) then I'll need to send it to a smith and pay what I would have paid in the first place. So, I'm willing to give it a try.
Noel...
I agree with you.
I'd peen it at several places in the middle but I think I would not use a punch, I think I'd use two ball peen hammers. Use one of the hammers as the punch and tap it with the other hammer.
This will spread the distortion of the metal over a larger area and reduce the likelihood that the hand will break from metal fatigue where it has been peened.
I think you might find that if you peen it only on one side, that it will wind up bent slightly in that direction.
Best of luck with this project.
I agree with you.
I'd peen it at several places in the middle but I think I would not use a punch, I think I'd use two ball peen hammers. Use one of the hammers as the punch and tap it with the other hammer.
This will spread the distortion of the metal over a larger area and reduce the likelihood that the hand will break from metal fatigue where it has been peened.
I think you might find that if you peen it only on one side, that it will wind up bent slightly in that direction.
Best of luck with this project.
I tried stretching the hand to no avail. Worried I'd break it so I bought a new one from VTI. I tried a size dimensions comparison, new one to old, and they didn't seem much different except the new one is blued. I put the new hand in a few minutes ago, no filing, and all works perfect! How lucky is that? 