I've worn myself out looking for a combination that works for me.What I would like is an auto that is not huge,and not a 1911.But can be carried cocked and locked, in 40 Super. I think a Cz 97 would work but I don't know if it is strong enough and I can't find a 40 Super barrel for them anyway. A 1911 single stack would be pretty good but I have not had good luck with them in the reliability department. Please give me some suggestions,thanks.
In search of 40 Super
- Thread starter frank2
- Start date
A 10mm Glock 29, or a Glock 30 with an aftermarket barrel. (Kinda cocked, unlocked) Smallest.
An HK USP45c with an aftermarket barrel. Light, super strong, carry as you like.
A Witness CZ clone in 10mm or get a .45 model and have a smith open up a 10mm or .40 barrel that fits the slide. Big, heavy, tough, cocked and locked.
All listed are tough and accurate-should meet your standards. I know you listed .40 Super and I listed 10mm, but we both know they're about the same and why go custom barrel when a production gun will throw the same chunk of lead?
An HK USP45c with an aftermarket barrel. Light, super strong, carry as you like.
A Witness CZ clone in 10mm or get a .45 model and have a smith open up a 10mm or .40 barrel that fits the slide. Big, heavy, tough, cocked and locked.
All listed are tough and accurate-should meet your standards. I know you listed .40 Super and I listed 10mm, but we both know they're about the same and why go custom barrel when a production gun will throw the same chunk of lead?
"*** an auto that is not huge, and not a 1911."
Depends on what you mean by "huge," but I don't consider a Glock 20 or 21 "huge" because the polymer is so light, and in my world the weight-issue (as in "heavy") is part and parcel of "huge." Try packing a .44 mag Desert Eagle. Now that's huge.
"*** carried cocked & locked"
Okay, now Glocks are out. But the CZ 97B is definitely OVER-engineered for the 45acp cartridge. Maybe there's a shot here.
A gunsmith/dealer acquaintance & I stripped one down not long ago and he agreed that all that steel and weight, if properly sprung and scaled-down to 10mm specs (my preference), could handled a cartridge much hotter than the .45acp. My theory since this gun came out has been that CZ has (or once had) in mind other cartridges for which the 97B is/was the basic envelope. A lot depends on what other caliber(s) the CZ people see as having a viable U.S. market versus the costs of production.
"*** I have not had good luck with them in the reliability department.
I'm still not convinced that the .40 Super, in the heavier loadings (175gns & above), distinguishes itself sufficiently to prefer it over the hotter 10mm loadings with the heavier bullets. (And not just 10mm factory loads from CorBon (180gn @ 1300fps) or the 200gn Hornady FPs at 1250 fps from Texas Ammo Company). Reloaders can tread into nuclear territory with not much effort, and you can really pump-up the fps using the longer 6 inch 10mm barrels. (Glock offers a factory 6" "hunting" barrel).
As far as reliability, I've seen some reports of feeding problems from people using .40 Super "conversions" in 1911s. But then I've also seen posts from those having no problems.
The biggest difficulty seems to be FINDING .40 Super ammo, which I've never seen at gunshows or on the shelves of any gunstores I've ever been in. Must be flying off the shelves before the dust settles.
But then how frequently do you see .45 Super, .45 SMC, .38 Casull, or other similar "Hobby Cartridges of the Month."
In search of .40 Super? Go for it, if it's what you want. But, depending on your exact needs, you're pretty much there already with the 10mm Auto, especially if the preferred recipe calls for "heavy & fast." Easier to find in both guns & ammo, too. Good luck.
Depends on what you mean by "huge," but I don't consider a Glock 20 or 21 "huge" because the polymer is so light, and in my world the weight-issue (as in "heavy") is part and parcel of "huge." Try packing a .44 mag Desert Eagle. Now that's huge.
"*** carried cocked & locked"
Okay, now Glocks are out. But the CZ 97B is definitely OVER-engineered for the 45acp cartridge. Maybe there's a shot here.
A gunsmith/dealer acquaintance & I stripped one down not long ago and he agreed that all that steel and weight, if properly sprung and scaled-down to 10mm specs (my preference), could handled a cartridge much hotter than the .45acp. My theory since this gun came out has been that CZ has (or once had) in mind other cartridges for which the 97B is/was the basic envelope. A lot depends on what other caliber(s) the CZ people see as having a viable U.S. market versus the costs of production.
"*** I have not had good luck with them in the reliability department.
I'm still not convinced that the .40 Super, in the heavier loadings (175gns & above), distinguishes itself sufficiently to prefer it over the hotter 10mm loadings with the heavier bullets. (And not just 10mm factory loads from CorBon (180gn @ 1300fps) or the 200gn Hornady FPs at 1250 fps from Texas Ammo Company). Reloaders can tread into nuclear territory with not much effort, and you can really pump-up the fps using the longer 6 inch 10mm barrels. (Glock offers a factory 6" "hunting" barrel).
As far as reliability, I've seen some reports of feeding problems from people using .40 Super "conversions" in 1911s. But then I've also seen posts from those having no problems.
The biggest difficulty seems to be FINDING .40 Super ammo, which I've never seen at gunshows or on the shelves of any gunstores I've ever been in. Must be flying off the shelves before the dust settles.
But then how frequently do you see .45 Super, .45 SMC, .38 Casull, or other similar "Hobby Cartridges of the Month." In search of .40 Super? Go for it, if it's what you want. But, depending on your exact needs, you're pretty much there already with the 10mm Auto, especially if the preferred recipe calls for "heavy & fast." Easier to find in both guns & ammo, too. Good luck.
Triton makes the ammo and they have links to gun makers and all that at their web site. I just looked up the data on their page...
135gr 1800fps
165gr 1500fps
200gr 1300fps
it looks like the 10mm is about 200fps slower.
I may may have to rethink my definition of huge.
agtman, If the 10mm can be hotrodded with handloads do you think the same would be true for the 40 Super? Boy that would be real fast. Is the CZ bigger and heavier than the Sig?
135gr 1800fps
165gr 1500fps
200gr 1300fps
it looks like the 10mm is about 200fps slower.
I may may have to rethink my definition of huge.
agtman, If the 10mm can be hotrodded with handloads do you think the same would be true for the 40 Super? Boy that would be real fast. Is the CZ bigger and heavier than the Sig?
frank2:
At 175gns & above, the 10mm & .40 Super are really too close to call.
Triton lists the .40 Super/200gn load at 1300fps, while Texas Ammo list their 10mm/200gn Hornady FP load at 1250fps. That's a distinction without a difference, not "200fps slower." Heavy-n-fast is where it counts, at least for me. But then when you factor in how hard .40 Super is to find, the 10mm starts to look REAL attractive.
Yeah, in the lighter .40 Super loads (135gns) Triton pumps-up the fps, but "light-n-fast" doesn't do much for me. And, again, how available is it?
Yes, the CZ 97B is bigger and heavier than the Sig (I assume you mean the 220?).
At 175gns & above, the 10mm & .40 Super are really too close to call.
Triton lists the .40 Super/200gn load at 1300fps, while Texas Ammo list their 10mm/200gn Hornady FP load at 1250fps. That's a distinction without a difference, not "200fps slower." Heavy-n-fast is where it counts, at least for me. But then when you factor in how hard .40 Super is to find, the 10mm starts to look REAL attractive.
Yeah, in the lighter .40 Super loads (135gns) Triton pumps-up the fps, but "light-n-fast" doesn't do much for me. And, again, how available is it?
Yes, the CZ 97B is bigger and heavier than the Sig (I assume you mean the 220?).
I see what you mean about the heavy bullets having the same speed while the 40 Super pushes lighter bullets faster. I hadn't really been able the put my finger on what was going on with the 2 cartridges. I'll have to look at the 10mm again. I don't really know of a particular use of the very fast light bullets that would make the 40 Super attractive. The light fast bullets would probably make more of a mess of a bad guy, but I plan on shooting more deer than bad guys. (Hopefully I never have to shoot a bad guy.) I believe the 180grn and heavier bullets are better for deer.
So for my purposes it seems the two are pretty much equal. Should make it easier to find a gun. Thanks.
So for my purposes it seems the two are pretty much equal. Should make it easier to find a gun. Thanks.
Alaska Roy
New member
10mm vs .40 Super?
Being a fan and owner of three different 10mms it's easy to see how caliber bias comes to play grin!
I'm also a smith and commercial loader and easily can answer this without bias.
Simply, the .40 Super is a larger case holding more powder and can easily be loaded hotter than the 10mm, now add in that steep bottle neck which adds even more pressure than a straightwall and it's a hands down potentially way more power than the 10mm.
Problem is a platform, I'll wager in a larger gun like the LAR, one could cook up the .40 Super to easily exceed the .41 Mag.
In 4 or 5 inch barreled carry guns recoil and muzzle blast can be detremental to the shooters control.
Since the poster was looking for a smallest with the mostest gun, why not one of the baby Glocks in .45acp with a spare barrel in .40Super? Can ya imagine the muzzle flash?
Being a fan and owner of three different 10mms it's easy to see how caliber bias comes to play grin!
I'm also a smith and commercial loader and easily can answer this without bias.
Simply, the .40 Super is a larger case holding more powder and can easily be loaded hotter than the 10mm, now add in that steep bottle neck which adds even more pressure than a straightwall and it's a hands down potentially way more power than the 10mm.
Problem is a platform, I'll wager in a larger gun like the LAR, one could cook up the .40 Super to easily exceed the .41 Mag.
In 4 or 5 inch barreled carry guns recoil and muzzle blast can be detremental to the shooters control.
Since the poster was looking for a smallest with the mostest gun, why not one of the baby Glocks in .45acp with a spare barrel in .40Super? Can ya imagine the muzzle flash?