In a custom 1911 which is better, Wilson, Baer or?
- Thread starter MIKE10538
- Start date
Wilson Combat: 5 Stars
Excellent customer service, product, lifetime warranty, very reliable and accurate gun. High resale value. You can buy direct and have it shipped to your local FFL. Currently 4-9 month backlog
Les Baer: 3 Stars
Poor customer service, tightest custom production 1911, most cases, more accurate then a Wilson, fair re-sale value, strange warranty. 2-4 month backog
Ed Brown: 5 Stars
Meticulous, outstanding fit and finish, very accurate, harder to find 4-9 month backlog
Rock River Arms: 4 Stars
Good customer service, generally a hair cheaper, then Wilson and Les Baer, good accuracy, Resale value still unknown due to RRA still being relatively new 7-11 month backlog
As much as I love my Les Baers, I would recommend an Ed Brown or Wilson Combat pistol. The Les Baer maybe more accurate but the overall excellence of Wilson Combat and Ed Brown far exceeds Les Baer's products. Don't take me wrong, you won't go wrong with any of the Baer 1911's. I just expect more for that kind of money.
Check out:
P&T Partners
Terry Peters carries the Baers, Wilsons, and Browns.
Then there's Rock River Arm's Web Site
Good luck with your decision and once you get a "custom" 1911, you won't ever go back to production guns.
------------------
Son
1911 Addiction
"The tree of liberty will grow only when watered by the blood of tyrants."
Excellent customer service, product, lifetime warranty, very reliable and accurate gun. High resale value. You can buy direct and have it shipped to your local FFL. Currently 4-9 month backlog
Les Baer: 3 Stars
Poor customer service, tightest custom production 1911, most cases, more accurate then a Wilson, fair re-sale value, strange warranty. 2-4 month backog
Ed Brown: 5 Stars
Meticulous, outstanding fit and finish, very accurate, harder to find 4-9 month backlog
Rock River Arms: 4 Stars
Good customer service, generally a hair cheaper, then Wilson and Les Baer, good accuracy, Resale value still unknown due to RRA still being relatively new 7-11 month backlog
As much as I love my Les Baers, I would recommend an Ed Brown or Wilson Combat pistol. The Les Baer maybe more accurate but the overall excellence of Wilson Combat and Ed Brown far exceeds Les Baer's products. Don't take me wrong, you won't go wrong with any of the Baer 1911's. I just expect more for that kind of money.
Check out:
P&T Partners
Terry Peters carries the Baers, Wilsons, and Browns.
Then there's Rock River Arm's Web Site
Good luck with your decision and once you get a "custom" 1911, you won't ever go back to production guns.
------------------
Son
1911 Addiction
"The tree of liberty will grow only when watered by the blood of tyrants."
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Which is better the Wilson Combat, Les Baer or ??? and why? [/quote]
"Better" depends upon what's important to you -- looks, accuracy, reliability, durability, resale value, or ?
Also, note that anything not made to a customer's specifications is not truly "custom". I don't know if the big name shops such as Wilson and Baer will be willing to alter one of their offerings to fit your tastes.
"Better" depends upon what's important to you -- looks, accuracy, reliability, durability, resale value, or ?
Also, note that anything not made to a customer's specifications is not truly "custom". I don't know if the big name shops such as Wilson and Baer will be willing to alter one of their offerings to fit your tastes.
Gopher .45
New member
Gun Tests magazine rated a Wilson CQB, one Les Baer model (not the Thunder Ranch that wasn't available at the time) and a Clark in that order. This was for a combat pistol, although they noted the Baer had the best accuracy overall. Wilson's accuracy was still very good as was Clark's, all things considered.
I mean no offense to anyone's personal perspectives here, but the use of the word "custom" seems to be a sore point and one that isn't necessarily valid concerning the quality of a gun. You will hear, custom, customized, production custom, and truly custom descriptors and people will tell you why a truly custom gun is what you need. Here a truly custom gun is made from the ground up to your specs or the specs of the smith making your gun and a technician apparently never touches it. These are often very well made (from what I have read) and are usually correspondingly expensive. Is a truly custom gun necessarily better than a Wilson, Baer, or Clark? Maybe. The one thing you may get with a truly custom gun is a wider choice of parts to put on the gun. As ArmySon has noted, Wilson uses Wilson parts, period.
The problem with many truly custom guns is that many are made by specific specific gunsmith and when that maker dies, the backing or service policy may go with it. You might do better choosing a not-so-custom gun from Wilson or Baer, but have a gun that is backed by a company history to stand behind the product should their be problems in the long run.
FYI, Wilson also has a long wait for ordered guns, but Terry Peters (see ArmySon's message for the link) seems to have a continued supply of them in various models. At the show in Dallas, I think he also had Baers and Clarks as well.
I mean no offense to anyone's personal perspectives here, but the use of the word "custom" seems to be a sore point and one that isn't necessarily valid concerning the quality of a gun. You will hear, custom, customized, production custom, and truly custom descriptors and people will tell you why a truly custom gun is what you need. Here a truly custom gun is made from the ground up to your specs or the specs of the smith making your gun and a technician apparently never touches it. These are often very well made (from what I have read) and are usually correspondingly expensive. Is a truly custom gun necessarily better than a Wilson, Baer, or Clark? Maybe. The one thing you may get with a truly custom gun is a wider choice of parts to put on the gun. As ArmySon has noted, Wilson uses Wilson parts, period.
The problem with many truly custom guns is that many are made by specific specific gunsmith and when that maker dies, the backing or service policy may go with it. You might do better choosing a not-so-custom gun from Wilson or Baer, but have a gun that is backed by a company history to stand behind the product should their be problems in the long run.
FYI, Wilson also has a long wait for ordered guns, but Terry Peters (see ArmySon's message for the link) seems to have a continued supply of them in various models. At the show in Dallas, I think he also had Baers and Clarks as well.
Ed Brunner
New member
What do you experts think about Dane Burns'
Custom 1911's?
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You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."
Better days to be,
Ed
Custom 1911's?
------------------
You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."
Better days to be,
Ed
PT-Partners
New member
I am the "profiteering" Dealer that the other two posters mentioned. I retail the Wilson, Brown, Novak, Baer and any other custom gunsmith that I can lay my hands on who is "reputable" and have for about 7 years and have about 500 of the custom or high end guns pass through my retail operation. I only say this as a reference and not as any authority. I only reflect what my customers say and what has sold the best with the least back up.
This is non-commital I realize but there is no best as there are devotees to all above and many others.
Each one has there share of fans, press, and well built handguns.
Each one to include the one man shops have had their a "whoops" or two. Some more than than others
Sales drive the train. Wilsons are doing better than the Baers. Browns have equaled and are now passing Baers in sales for me. But Brown is much more expensive. Much more expensive.
One of the other posters mentioned the use of the word "custom" and how some readers have a coronary when used on a Wilson, Brown or Baer.
What all do is offer a "package" that is built so the buyer who is not the "expert" in the what fits his needs gets a good product and before the demand far exceeded the available supply gets his/her gun in much less time.
Wilson now has a 7 month lead. ArmySon mentioned Ed Browns time. So guys like me risk our hard earned money to get your hard earned money by ordering custom packages we (the retailer) are betting you (the prospective buyer) will buy because you don't want to wait. Price is the same as theirs.
One of the posters mentioned Wilson uses only Wilson parts. Of course Wilson needs to stay in business. Brown uses only Brown parts and the same is for Baer
If you want the gun built with a Brown beaver tail, stippling, barsto barrel, Wilson tactical ambi, McCormick wedge mainspring housing, and have the barrel full ramped with Heine Sights and a Novak front sight. That niche is filled by the one man shops. Brian Bilby, Dane Burns, Wayne Novak, Mark Morris, just to name a few.
I hope I haven't thoroughly confused you but if you have other question email off of the website or off of my profile as listed.
Just remember you get what you pay for front end or back end.
Terry Peters
http://www.pt-partners.com
P.S. This is a plug for another forum but you can get 1911 specific questions answered on the 1911 Forum. www.1911forum There is individual section for each individual maker.
There is even a seperate section for gunsmiths where you will hear about specific question or horror stories as you seem to be trying to find out.
This is non-commital I realize but there is no best as there are devotees to all above and many others.
Each one has there share of fans, press, and well built handguns.
Each one to include the one man shops have had their a "whoops" or two. Some more than than others
Sales drive the train. Wilsons are doing better than the Baers. Browns have equaled and are now passing Baers in sales for me. But Brown is much more expensive. Much more expensive.
One of the other posters mentioned the use of the word "custom" and how some readers have a coronary when used on a Wilson, Brown or Baer.
What all do is offer a "package" that is built so the buyer who is not the "expert" in the what fits his needs gets a good product and before the demand far exceeded the available supply gets his/her gun in much less time.
Wilson now has a 7 month lead. ArmySon mentioned Ed Browns time. So guys like me risk our hard earned money to get your hard earned money by ordering custom packages we (the retailer) are betting you (the prospective buyer) will buy because you don't want to wait. Price is the same as theirs.
One of the posters mentioned Wilson uses only Wilson parts. Of course Wilson needs to stay in business. Brown uses only Brown parts and the same is for Baer
If you want the gun built with a Brown beaver tail, stippling, barsto barrel, Wilson tactical ambi, McCormick wedge mainspring housing, and have the barrel full ramped with Heine Sights and a Novak front sight. That niche is filled by the one man shops. Brian Bilby, Dane Burns, Wayne Novak, Mark Morris, just to name a few.
I hope I haven't thoroughly confused you but if you have other question email off of the website or off of my profile as listed.
Just remember you get what you pay for front end or back end.
Terry Peters
http://www.pt-partners.com
P.S. This is a plug for another forum but you can get 1911 specific questions answered on the 1911 Forum. www.1911forum There is individual section for each individual maker.
There is even a seperate section for gunsmiths where you will hear about specific question or horror stories as you seem to be trying to find out.
Just a point of clarification:
My earlier message was not meant to suggest that "custom" is a title of excellence to which the big shops such as Wilson and Baer are not entitled. Quite the opposite: I was simply trying to point out, for the sake of clarity, that "custom" should be reserved for pistols built to order and not used as a synonym for "high quality".
Certainly, someone like Ed Brown can make a superb "package" pistol while any hack gunsmith with a Dremel tool can turn out shoddy "custom" work. It's also possible for a customer not familiar with the 1911 to specify all sorts of "custom" touches which, even if perfectly executed, detract from the utility of the pistol. E.g.: ambidextrous extended slide stop levers, or a bright chrome finish on the sights.
My earlier message was not meant to suggest that "custom" is a title of excellence to which the big shops such as Wilson and Baer are not entitled. Quite the opposite: I was simply trying to point out, for the sake of clarity, that "custom" should be reserved for pistols built to order and not used as a synonym for "high quality".
Certainly, someone like Ed Brown can make a superb "package" pistol while any hack gunsmith with a Dremel tool can turn out shoddy "custom" work. It's also possible for a customer not familiar with the 1911 to specify all sorts of "custom" touches which, even if perfectly executed, detract from the utility of the pistol. E.g.: ambidextrous extended slide stop levers, or a bright chrome finish on the sights.
PT-Partners
New member
Just to support what Matt was saying on a "gunsmith."
One of the more credible custom gunsmiths ( as he was repairing a gun worked on by an "alleged" friend who "stated" he was a gunsmith) once stated the only thing that needs a waiting period is a dremel tool in the hand of this guy.
Which means do the research before you send your gun and money to one "best pricers" or one of your friends for work.
I often hear "Darn (other word usually), He is proud of that," Meaning it is expensive.
These "custom" guys whether shops or one man operations didn't get to where there are by giving rotten service and poor quality work.
You have to pay bills, eat and little things like that.
I also hear "You are only paying for the name."
Well that may be right because you don't get your reputation by being a "dirtball" type of business man who sells "cheap" garbage products.
That isn't saying high price is the best. I am saying DO THE RESEARCH first but you will get what you pay for.
If something is heavily discounted there is a reason and it is not always what the buyer thinks it is. There are many reasons products and that includes guns are "best priced." Close out. Junk product or problem . Poor reputation. Needed cash flow or whatever.
Check discounts with both eyes open and one hand over your wallet.
Best Price is rarely the Best Value
You get what you pay for front end or back end. (watch that back end as sometime there is no KY)
Be safe and keep the brass flying
Terry Peters
http://www.pt-partners.com
One of the more credible custom gunsmiths ( as he was repairing a gun worked on by an "alleged" friend who "stated" he was a gunsmith) once stated the only thing that needs a waiting period is a dremel tool in the hand of this guy.
Which means do the research before you send your gun and money to one "best pricers" or one of your friends for work.
I often hear "Darn (other word usually), He is proud of that," Meaning it is expensive.
These "custom" guys whether shops or one man operations didn't get to where there are by giving rotten service and poor quality work.
You have to pay bills, eat and little things like that.
I also hear "You are only paying for the name."
Well that may be right because you don't get your reputation by being a "dirtball" type of business man who sells "cheap" garbage products.
That isn't saying high price is the best. I am saying DO THE RESEARCH first but you will get what you pay for.
If something is heavily discounted there is a reason and it is not always what the buyer thinks it is. There are many reasons products and that includes guns are "best priced." Close out. Junk product or problem . Poor reputation. Needed cash flow or whatever.
Check discounts with both eyes open and one hand over your wallet.
Best Price is rarely the Best Value
You get what you pay for front end or back end. (watch that back end as sometime there is no KY)
Be safe and keep the brass flying
Terry Peters
http://www.pt-partners.com
Gopher .45
New member
You know, I have read what Terry has posted over various subjects on various boards and for the life of me, I can't say that I have found anything that he has put forth to wrong, sometimes opinionated, but not wrong. What he and other posters have illustrated is that there are a lot of considerations to take into account. A custom gun may be exactly what you need or exactly what you don't need, or the same could be said with a top end production gun. Guns, live spouses, seem to be very personal decisions.
As far as Terry being a "profiteer," I think the term has a bad connotation. He is in business and businesses must make some profit, but his prices are reasonable...even for the expensive guns.
As far as Terry being a "profiteer," I think the term has a bad connotation. He is in business and businesses must make some profit, but his prices are reasonable...even for the expensive guns.