Important question for my friends of TFL

T

thaddeus

New member
Hello friends,

This is off-topic but very important to my tactical life so it is not too out of place here. This is the widest array of good advice that I can find, so please bear with me.

I found myself in a bad spot recently where someone tried to shoot me. Wasn't too successful because he announced that he was going to shoot me and then went to the trunk of his car. He had his keys in his hand and was right next to his car when he made this audible decision to "get his gun and shoot me", so he had his key in the trunk lock before I could even get to him. I wasn't about to let him get his gun, so I tackled him and subdued him, and held him for Police. I make it sound simple in the quick description of the event, but trust me, it was a FUBAR situation, pucker factor high.

Where this is heading is that I had this bad thing happen and a wake-up call: One of my contacts slipped in the beginning of the incident, BEFORE he said he was going to shoot me. I have horrible near-sighted vision, and was left with one eye for the fray. This seriously compromised my abilities, and frankly, to keep the story short, it almost got me killed.
I have seen that unless I plan on going through life never encountering violent events, that I should do something to prevent that from happening again. It was a serious problem having to deal with that tense situation and wrestle someone away from a gun with one eye out of commission.

I think I need to remedy this with eye surgery. I am not sure which kind; I need to explore my options. I am thinking that LASIK is the way to go, but I read that it is not FDA approved and I worry about that. On the other hand, I hear great things about LASIK.
I would love to hear from some people here that have ANY experience with corrective eye surgery. Whether it be friends, family, or yourself: if you have experienced this procedure and know anything about if it is a good idea, then please fill me in.
This is a life changing decision and very important. These are my eyes(!). I don't want to screw up. But, I never want to be in the situation I was in again. Next time I could lose sight in both eyes, and end up dead because I can't see, just like the FBI agent in the "Miami shootout".

thanks friends,
thaddeus@primenet.com

Feel free to email me if we want to keep this from cluttering the forums.
 
Thaddeus,

I have been considering such a thing myself, but due to higher priority project funding, I have not pursued it.

What I will do, though, when the time comes, will be to call many different clinics. Most of them have a free consultation where they will educate you about the different procedures that your particular case would respond to.

Next, I would call the Better Business Beurow (I hate that word, never can spell it right!) and find out how many complaints have been lodged against them, and what the specifics were.

I would also ask them for a list of references, and call most if not all of them.

Then I would fast for forty days, sit in ashes and sack-cloth, inhale (
wink.gif
) incense, and chant eye-improving mantras until I decided on which one to go with...

Seriously (disregarding that last paragraph), there is probably much info on the web that would provide you with enough information to ask the right questions.

I know that it's not a decision to be made lightly, I wear glasses and have been considering such a move since I heard about it.

This site has some preliminary information: http://www.austin-eye.com/info.html#differences

Sincerely,

------------------
John/az

"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."

www.countdown9199.com


[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited June 05, 1999).]
 
From what I understand, I'm very leery of the various surgeries because they greatly weaken the structure of the eyes themselves, causing them to rupture more easily.

They won't allow pilots to have the surgery in the military, and the last thing I need is something blinding me for good when I get popped in the eye.

Do the research and let us know, but like I said, I'm pretty leery.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
www.bladeforums.com
 
Thad...
Consider what Spark said while doing what John said. While researching, check in particular on young people with very physically active lives.

My knowledge is that the ideal patient is older and quite a bit more sedate than you. Further, myopia actually gets better with age.

Alternatively, there is a regimen of gradiated contacts that physically mold the eyeball to the sight desired...much like weight training. There is no surgery and hence no controlled injury to weaken the physical "bubble".

------------------
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
 
Thanks so far. The reshaping-contacts won't work for me, I already looked into it.

The SEALs and FBI now take people that have Laser surgery done. The reason is, that it does not weaken the eye like the old RK. RK was/is incisions around the eye that weaken the eye for life. Laser surgery is much less intrusive and won't weaken your eye, which is what they worried about in active carreers (diving to deep depths etc)

I have two appt's made for eye doctors to discuss my options. But, they are making money off me and hence, I will not take their word until I ask some real people as well as seeking their advice.
 
Thad,
You're very wise to seek advice on this 'cause once you do it you can never go back. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't go forward.

One of my good friends is a Dr. of Optometry. He keeps trying to get me to have the LASIK procedure to correct my horrible eyesight (9.5 diopters in both eyes). He never recommended RK, but he is gung ho about LASIK. Also, I must add he gets nothing for it since he doesn't do the procedure in his practice. One very positive aspect is that you can have "touch ups" if necessary to get your vision even better if the initial procedure wasn't perfect.

It is extremely important that you get the opinion of an opthalmologist or two and no one else. Sounds like you've already got the appointments, but just be sure they are Dr's of Opth. not optometrists.

One other thing is to examine why your contact fell out. My contacts used to fall out all the time until I got large soft contacts. They haven't fallen out in years. And my vision is 20/20 with them which is the reason I don't want to go through the hassle of LASIK.

I think your reasoning for wanting to do it is valid, but just be sure you have examined all options.
 
Comment: I'm also near-sighted but I've stuck with glasses, never even worn contacts. I had a radiator blow up in my face, suffered nasty burns to the face and one arm but the glasses protected my eyes.

I view them as a "functional type of eye armor" for at least some things and I haven't even been thinking about surgery.

My $.02...

Jim March
 
I, too, wear glasses, but only at night. I don't like them, but I can't stand anything coming in contact with my eyes. And since I work at night, the Lasik is out. See, I have a friend that's had Lasik, and it adversly affected her night vision for about six or seven months. My night vision is something I'm not willing to compromise, especially when the glasses do the job just fine. When I'm outdoors during the daylight hours, I always have the ole Gargoyles on. Don't want the sun to get to my night vision (and believe me, it can).
 
P.S.--Some Police Departments wont accept eye surgery as "corrected vision" during the hiring process. Keep that in mind if you ever pursue a career in LE.
 
You might want to look into the newest proceedure. I am uncertain of the name, but it involves inserting a small plastic ring into the eye, which expands and flattens out the cornea. What seemed better about this is that it's apparently fully reversible, unlike the laser techniques. But I agree with Jim March on this one. My "eye Kevlar" has stopped more than a few projectiles of various natures.
 
thaddeus... I have been there... I was in a similar tussel with my eyes causeing problems. Pepper spray is worse than a slipped lens. But better Contact lens than Glasses! With Glasses you would have lost BOTH instead of just 1. As mentioned above - sunglasses like Gargoyles are priceless.

------------------
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
Thaddeus,
This year I had to go to tri-focals, and while visiting the family opthamologist asked the good DR. about lazer surgery to correct my master eye....with out getting into a whole lot of detail I might get wrong, she advised against it, because as you age the eye changes shape and once the shape has been changed through surgery, her concern was that the surgery might have to be repeated in the future and she didnt know if the prior surgery would allow future corrections....and you would wind up with glasses anyway..........I would give just about anything to have the eyesight I had, now I know this cynical, but she might have bias towards her professional view as that is were her income is derived.....btw for those contact situations...ju-jit-su is for real and part of our matt work is done in the dark.....fubsy.
 
thaddeus, I need to weigh in on this one. My words are the absolute truth.

I think it was 1993, and I accompanied my wife to her high school reunion. She saw an old friend, and the friend told us about her fantastic RK surgery. I had heard about it years before, but was waiting until it was more mainstream. I learned that at that point RK had been done for about 20 years, and some doctors were doing thousands each year.

I was cautious. I checked around to see who was doing the most surgeries. I found a guy in Phoenix who was quite prolific - he had done thousands, he did a lot of advertising, and I talked to a fair number of his satisfied patients. I went to a Saturday seminar he put on, witnessed an operation (via CCTV), and was examined by his staff. They said I was a candidate, but that because I was so nearsighted (coke bottle glasses) I might not end up at 20:20 without correction - they might need to do more than one surgery, and at worst I'd end up slightly nearsighted or farsighted, but it would be correctable with glasses or contacts. That is, the worst that would happen would be that my eyes would work much better without glasses, and if they weren't perfect it could be corrected. The surgery could be done on a Thursday or Friday, and most patients were supposed to go back to work on the following Monday.

I still wasn't convinced. I went down to the Arizona Board of Medical Examiners and looked through this well-known ophthalmologist's file. There was nary a complaint, and no complaints about RK. Looked like a go.

So, I took a deep breath, paid my money and went under his knife.

By the end of the following week I still couldn't see well enough to read a newspaper. I had stayed home from the office all week because I couldn't see to work. I went in to their office that Friday and they put me on a regimen of eye drops that stung like mad.

Over the next few months I went back to that office again and again. They did followup surgery. Things got somewhat better. Still, my eyes to this day do not focus anywhere near as well as they did before the surgery. [You know how you go to the optomotrist and he finds the lenses that make everything look sharp and in focus? Well, I can't get there anymore. It never gets to that crisp focus.] I wear contacts as well as reading glasses. My night vision is much worse, with halos and less ability to function in low light.

Never in my life have I turned to litigation to solve a problem. In this case I made an exception. Eventually I traveled to Salt Lake City and Las Vegas for examinations, grueling hours-long examinations of my eyes in relation to the litigation. Eventually we settled out of court.

Unfortunately my right eye is my worst eye, and it is the eye that most easily loses the contact lens. Especially in shooting. Little by little I'm learning to squint with that eye in order to retain the contact during recoil, training, target shooting and so on.

I've talked to surgeons about having my corneas replaced - they can do that. However, they don't recommend that course. For unexplained reasons, on a small percentage of such operations the eye actually implodes and is destroyed. They can't predict when or to which eye this will occur.

So, I've reached the end of the road on this deal. Done the best I can and now I live with it. Could be a hell of a lot worse, so I count my blessings.

But you ... you've got a choice in front of you. Six years have passed, and they say the technology is better. Six years ago they told me the technology was better too, and six years from now they'll say today's technology is obsolete.

Yes, check with different doctors. A bunch of them. I would also suggest reading every article you can lay your hands on. I would even suggest speaking with a surgeon who replaces corneas. Ask him / her what they think of the procedure you're comtemplating. If pilots, SEALS, FBI or whatever do not accept someone with the procedure, I'd suggest passing. Check all of this out yourself - don't take hearsay.

Go to your Board of Medical Examiners. They're the source in most states, but check with the Better Business Bureau as well. Just know this. In Arizona, at least when I was doing my research, they don't put all of the complaints in a doctor's file! Yes, that's right. I found out later that my a*****e had many complaints against him for RK. But ... since the Board had not yet reviewed and adjudicated those complaints, they were not yet public. Nice, eh? Besides the special feelings I hold for this quack, there is also a special place in my heart for the bureaucratic fools who created the Board of Medical Examiners.

Remember ... you cannot go back. And, if they screw up, they may not be able to fix it - no matter what they may say.

Take twice as long as you think you need to come to a conclusion on this decision. It is one of the most important ones you will ever make.

ps - do a search in TFL for 'old eyes' or such, and you'll find another thread about this subject.

Regards, and best wishes, from AZ
 
Hello Thaddeus,

Alot of good questions and advice have been brought up. Let me say that I am not an opthamologist, however I do have pertinent experience which you may find useful.

1) First educate yourself as much as possible about your problem and the solutions. You have taken the first step by posting here. An educated patient asks more pertinent questions. To this end check out this web site and read it all. It is the American Academy of Opthamologists and deals with all types of corrective eye surgery- benefits and complications.
www.eyenet.org/public/ref_surg/ref_surg.html
http://www.eyenet.org/public/ref_adv/index.html
Before you consult anyone make a long list of questions from your readings, do not rely on memory.

2) Consult an opthamologist outside of a LASIK institute and pay for the visit THEN consult with the prospective surgeon. The consult fee is probably around 75-100$. The reason for this is to ensure that all your questions and options are discussed fully and to your satisfaction.

As with all surgeries there are risks and complications. Your job is to find out if the benefits for you outweigh the risks, and the consulting physicians job is to outline these for you.

FDA approval- Let me just say that the FDA is pretty slow. There are many drugs/surgeries currently in use(in the US) that do not have FDA approval for the specific use. It is very different if the drug/surgery has not been approved at all- at best this means studies have not been sufficiently completed and at worst it means that the "cure is worse than the disease".

LASIK surgery has two components, both of which are approved but not in combination for this particular procedure. First is a microkeratome which cuts a flap in the surface of the cornea. Next is an eximer laser which removes underlying tissue. Both of these devices are used in similiar procedures, but not in combination.

As I understand it the increased fragility of the globe in RK, AK, and PRK, are complications due to slow healing secondary to removal of the corneal surface. Since the hallmark of LASIK is rapid healing(corneal surface flap is replaced) the complication is generally not seen.

Another pearl is that you may want to have two surgeries, one for each eye, so that if there are complications..... you get the idea. Discuss this with the eye doc, you may decide the complication risk is so low it is not worth the hassel.

Good luck
smile.gif


Olazul

editted to add another url

[This message has been edited by olazul (edited June 05, 1999).]
 
From an old man: I would not have back surgery unless I couldnt walk and I wouldnt have eye surgery unless I were blind. There are too many risks associated with both.

------------------
Better days to be,

Ed
 
Republic: I can't do the eye inserts either, already looked into it. But thanks.

Fubsy: Yes, JiuJitsu has saved me a number of times, and this was one of them. Might I say that once I had my hands on him, eyes or not, he was under complete control.

Bulldog: Did your friend eventually regain her nightvision? I can deal with temporary anything, as long as I eventually have my nightvision back %100.

I don't opt for Glasses because, one thing that many glasses-wearers don't realize because they are so used to it, is that you lose a whole lot of your peripheral vision with glasses on. Once I put my contacts in after wearing glasses for a while, I realize that I have been looking out a tunnel the whole time with glasses on.
At first I was given contacts for Boxers, they were extra large and not supposed to slip. I think I still wear them, but it has been so long I have been wearing the same thing that I don't remember.
If I have to stick with contacts, I will keep glasses on my pocket from now on. I am really good with my contacts and I can easily rip them out with two fingers and pop my glasses on if the situation arises that I lose a contact again.
To be honest, if they could even get my vision to "decent" like 20/40, I would be happy. As long as I can get my eyes to the point where I can function without my glasses/contacts.

Jeff- yours is the horror story that keeps me from taking the plunge. I do wonder about the fact that Laser surgery is much different than RK, but nonetheless, do I want to take that chance?
I called an FBI recruiter and was told specifically that they were beginning to take people with Laser corrective surgery, but not RK. Dennis Chalker, who just retired from the SEALs (most here have heard of him in Marcinko's books) told me face to face that the SEALs are now taking people with Laser surgery. So, it was not hearsay just for the record.
I have been researching and thinking about this surgery for about a decade. Every time a new procedure comes along, I rejoice that it may be the one that I trust my eyes to. This last incident, and the apparent popularity of LASIK, has made me reconsider yet again. But then your story makes me blink. Maybe it will be another ten years before I finally take the step.

Thanks for the URLs, I will go read them all.

[This message has been edited by thaddeus (edited June 05, 1999).]
 
thaddeus, olazul brings up a very good point I should have mentioned. If you do it, do one eye at a time. If I had, I would now be in better shape. And, I'd suggest doing your 'weak' eye first. Consider it a hedge.

Regards from AZ
 
Thad--I haven't seen her for a few months, so I couldn't tell you about any improvement. All I know is that the last time I saw her she worked nights, and she was getting very frustrated with not being able to see very well at night.
 
thaddeus, my d/o would not do rk on me, because of the risk of rupture in case of a blow to the head or eye ( i was a fire fighter/paramedic). i never asked about laser surgery whenit became available, but my mother had laser surgery on both eyes( 1 at a time). she also was very near sighted. initially, vision was very good in both eyes, but 2 yrs later she needs glasses to read.(she is now 81) don't know if her age was the factor or not, but i'm sticking with my glasses and a retaining strap. it worked for 30 yrs in the fire dept.
cmore
 
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