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I'm looking for some certified Level III-A Body Armor
- Thread starter ump45
- Start date
I know, but my question still made sense. Try here: http://www.armourofamerica.com/. I don't know if they sell to civies though.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Scouter27, why does UMP45 need body armor? I can answer this one. He needs it for protection!
Semantics between Level III and IIIa are pretty significant. IIIa will stop virtually all normal handgun ammo and apparently will stop some minor rifle ammo and smaller shotgun pellets. It's official rating is really for handgun ammo, however. The rest of the information I gave is based on various "tests" and anecdotal accounts I have read.
Level III body armor will stop a lot of rifle ammo, up to .308 supposedly. Not that I would want to be in the armor when shot by .308, as the blunt force trauma would be severe. Second Chance's saves stories show various people, usually cops, who were shot wearing Second Chances gear. Some of the pictures shot the vest and the the shootee bare skinned where you can see the rather large and nasty bruising produced by handgun calibers. Some people shot while wearing vest are rendered unconscious by the the blunt force trauma, but survive with a goodly amount of bruising and soft tissue damage. Some have been shot and never knew it, finding slugs dropping out of their clothing back at the lockerroom when changing back into civi-clothing.
Asking a person why they need a ballist vest really is akin to asking why they would need a gun. I get it all the time and get it from fellow gun owners that I thought would have been sensitive to the idea of having appropriate gear to defend themselves. Body armor is a type of defense gear. I actually don't know of any cases where body armor has been used as an offensive weapon, although the person wearing it might have been on the offensive.
Why do I need body armor? I enjoy this question. I need it because I engage in a dangerous hobby, shooting. I wear it to the range. The range is the only place that I have ever been where I know I have had a loaded weapon pointed at me. In every case I know of, such incidents have been due to poor safety skills of the person holding the gun. Every year, several people get killed at ranges under similar circumstances.
You wear eye and ear protection because you know that loud noise pressure waves hitting your ears may cause hearing damage and you wear glasses because you know that cases and powder residue, target splinters, or bullet splatter from shooting steel targets can injure your eyes. I also know that a bullet shot from a gun that hits me may cause damage to me.
I sometimes have my armor in the house for home defense, but only after the carrier has been washed. I don't like the idea of bringing lead and powder residue into my home.
I bought my vest at www.galls.com . It is level IIIa. I bought the cheapest wrap around vest (having side panels) in that rating. I was not sure if I would like having a vest or not and so I did not spend the extra money to get a later generation vest that would have had equal protection, but would have been thinner and weighed less. While it is a concealable vest, that just means it can be worn under clothing, not that people won't see it printing on you if you go out in public. The vest I bought was part of Gall's lite line of vests. Don't be fooled. The carrier is Gall's, but the panels are safariland brand, so they are quality where it counts. If you have the bucks, then go with the best and get Second Chance. If you don't have the bucks, you want the vest for defense, and you don't know what you are going to come up against, then at least buy the trauma plates that cover the heart on the front and back. Trauma plates have a higher rating than the vest and most will stop rifle rounds. The carrier for the panels should have pockets for the trauma plates.
If you are going to keep the vest for home defense, somewhere I read that the vest needs to be kept with all parts fastened (both shoulders and one side) execpt for one side. That open side will allow for you to be able to put your opposite arm through its hole, the head through its, and then you fasten down the loose side. If you try monkeying with all the fastening, such as leaving both sides unfastened, it is much slower to get the armor on and in the correct position.
Also keep in mind that softe ballistic armor is not rated for stopping knives or ice picks. They pass through fairly easily. The only benefit of ballistic armor against a knife is that it provides a few extra layers that the knife would have to pass through before sticking you. You could probably get the same result of knife protection by wearing 3 or 4 layers of denim.
If you do buy one and have a choise of carrier colors, do not go with while unless you plan on wearing the vest under a white shirt in public. I have one blue and one white. The white starts to look nasty very quickly. Plus, if you are using it for home defense, darker carriers will not reflect light as well and hence help keep you hidden in the shadows a little better.
Semantics between Level III and IIIa are pretty significant. IIIa will stop virtually all normal handgun ammo and apparently will stop some minor rifle ammo and smaller shotgun pellets. It's official rating is really for handgun ammo, however. The rest of the information I gave is based on various "tests" and anecdotal accounts I have read.
Level III body armor will stop a lot of rifle ammo, up to .308 supposedly. Not that I would want to be in the armor when shot by .308, as the blunt force trauma would be severe. Second Chance's saves stories show various people, usually cops, who were shot wearing Second Chances gear. Some of the pictures shot the vest and the the shootee bare skinned where you can see the rather large and nasty bruising produced by handgun calibers. Some people shot while wearing vest are rendered unconscious by the the blunt force trauma, but survive with a goodly amount of bruising and soft tissue damage. Some have been shot and never knew it, finding slugs dropping out of their clothing back at the lockerroom when changing back into civi-clothing.
Asking a person why they need a ballist vest really is akin to asking why they would need a gun. I get it all the time and get it from fellow gun owners that I thought would have been sensitive to the idea of having appropriate gear to defend themselves. Body armor is a type of defense gear. I actually don't know of any cases where body armor has been used as an offensive weapon, although the person wearing it might have been on the offensive.
Why do I need body armor? I enjoy this question. I need it because I engage in a dangerous hobby, shooting. I wear it to the range. The range is the only place that I have ever been where I know I have had a loaded weapon pointed at me. In every case I know of, such incidents have been due to poor safety skills of the person holding the gun. Every year, several people get killed at ranges under similar circumstances.
You wear eye and ear protection because you know that loud noise pressure waves hitting your ears may cause hearing damage and you wear glasses because you know that cases and powder residue, target splinters, or bullet splatter from shooting steel targets can injure your eyes. I also know that a bullet shot from a gun that hits me may cause damage to me.
I sometimes have my armor in the house for home defense, but only after the carrier has been washed. I don't like the idea of bringing lead and powder residue into my home.
I bought my vest at www.galls.com . It is level IIIa. I bought the cheapest wrap around vest (having side panels) in that rating. I was not sure if I would like having a vest or not and so I did not spend the extra money to get a later generation vest that would have had equal protection, but would have been thinner and weighed less. While it is a concealable vest, that just means it can be worn under clothing, not that people won't see it printing on you if you go out in public. The vest I bought was part of Gall's lite line of vests. Don't be fooled. The carrier is Gall's, but the panels are safariland brand, so they are quality where it counts. If you have the bucks, then go with the best and get Second Chance. If you don't have the bucks, you want the vest for defense, and you don't know what you are going to come up against, then at least buy the trauma plates that cover the heart on the front and back. Trauma plates have a higher rating than the vest and most will stop rifle rounds. The carrier for the panels should have pockets for the trauma plates.
If you are going to keep the vest for home defense, somewhere I read that the vest needs to be kept with all parts fastened (both shoulders and one side) execpt for one side. That open side will allow for you to be able to put your opposite arm through its hole, the head through its, and then you fasten down the loose side. If you try monkeying with all the fastening, such as leaving both sides unfastened, it is much slower to get the armor on and in the correct position.
Also keep in mind that softe ballistic armor is not rated for stopping knives or ice picks. They pass through fairly easily. The only benefit of ballistic armor against a knife is that it provides a few extra layers that the knife would have to pass through before sticking you. You could probably get the same result of knife protection by wearing 3 or 4 layers of denim.
If you do buy one and have a choise of carrier colors, do not go with while unless you plan on wearing the vest under a white shirt in public. I have one blue and one white. The white starts to look nasty very quickly. Plus, if you are using it for home defense, darker carriers will not reflect light as well and hence help keep you hidden in the shadows a little better.
Double Naught Spy
New member
KPS, armor at the range is not to protect against enemies, but dummies with guns. It is easier to defend yourself when you know you are under attack. It is tough to defend against "accidents" or negligent discharges by someone else.
A friend came back from Tex. Dept. Public Safety's CHL instructor's course. They require all of their range officers to wear ballistic vests. The reasoning was that too many range officers across the country get killed in such a manner. Before I bought mine in 2001, there had been 5 gun range deaths of which I was aware in various places in the country, two of which were in Texas, one at a range I have visited (Garland, Texas).
Working on making your life safer by practicing how you would protect yourself should not add additional risk to your life, otherwise, you may be doing more harm that good. As a final note, two of the gun range deaths were unintentionally self inflicted. A guy in Atlanta was servicing a Desert Eagle .50 and apparently the first shot went down range and the unexpected recoil brought the up and over and pointed at his head where it discharged, undoubtedly as the guy was trying to regain control of the weapon. There were witnesses. A ballistic vest would have done nothing in that case. The second was the guy in Garland that was apparently handling a gun in the parking lot of the range when it discharged into his abdomen. There were witnesses and a vest probably would have saved his life.
What can I say? Nothing is fool proof. I have a gun. I have a vest. I have a fire place, range, and stove. I have fire extinguishers. I drive a car, I carry a spare and wear my seatbelt. Much of that safety equipment is not for when things are going as planned, but for when they aren't.
A friend came back from Tex. Dept. Public Safety's CHL instructor's course. They require all of their range officers to wear ballistic vests. The reasoning was that too many range officers across the country get killed in such a manner. Before I bought mine in 2001, there had been 5 gun range deaths of which I was aware in various places in the country, two of which were in Texas, one at a range I have visited (Garland, Texas).
Working on making your life safer by practicing how you would protect yourself should not add additional risk to your life, otherwise, you may be doing more harm that good. As a final note, two of the gun range deaths were unintentionally self inflicted. A guy in Atlanta was servicing a Desert Eagle .50 and apparently the first shot went down range and the unexpected recoil brought the up and over and pointed at his head where it discharged, undoubtedly as the guy was trying to regain control of the weapon. There were witnesses. A ballistic vest would have done nothing in that case. The second was the guy in Garland that was apparently handling a gun in the parking lot of the range when it discharged into his abdomen. There were witnesses and a vest probably would have saved his life.
What can I say? Nothing is fool proof. I have a gun. I have a vest. I have a fire place, range, and stove. I have fire extinguishers. I drive a car, I carry a spare and wear my seatbelt. Much of that safety equipment is not for when things are going as planned, but for when they aren't.
Double Naught, the differences between III and III-A would not change the answer to my question. It was a simple typing error on my part, but it made no difference ot the intention of my post. I simply wanted to make sure that the wasn't planing to use it for illegal things, and the fact that he answered probably means that he isn't. I have seen questions asked other places about things that could potentially been illegal, and when asked why they wanted to know they usually don't post and answer.
Body Armor
It is legal to purchase and own.
Only thing is if you are a convicted felon then it is illegal for you to possess.
If you are a felon and caught with bodyarmor then you are charged with an enhanced crime of felon in possession of body armor.
If you have it at home then it is okay.
Some states have asine laws regarding body armor.
Your best bet it to check the laws first.
I know that some of you are claiming that you have the right to protection and I understand that, But too many bad guys have the armor when they should be on the receiving end of the bullets.
It is legal to purchase and own.
Only thing is if you are a convicted felon then it is illegal for you to possess.
If you are a felon and caught with bodyarmor then you are charged with an enhanced crime of felon in possession of body armor.
If you have it at home then it is okay.
Some states have asine laws regarding body armor.
Your best bet it to check the laws first.
I know that some of you are claiming that you have the right to protection and I understand that, But too many bad guys have the armor when they should be on the receiving end of the bullets.
I did a lot of hunting 20 years ago. One year, there was a rash of hunting accidents (hunters who looked like deer and got shot by other hunters). My parents bought me a vest for my birthday. Not the under shirt kind, but a full blown camo vest with pockets and all. It is a second Chance TacPac, specifically. I could still wear my hunter orange over it. For over 20 years now I have been wearing it whenever I go hunting, or to the range. Fortunately it has not been "field tested" yet. I do get some strange looks when I am on the range, but no one has ever said anything to me.
Jake 98c/11b
New member
UMP 45, save yourself some cash and get the IIA, it will do all you need and save weight, money and comfort. After talking to Richard Davis a few years ago I decided that the heavier stuff is unnecessecary. The testing standards for body armor are not all scientifically valid. One of the test standards measures 'backface deformation' I.E. how big of a dent it makes in modeling clay. Unfortunately this is of little use. As I understand it there are no reported cases of people being significantly injured by blunt trauma from any handgun rounds being stopped by a ballistic vest. In several hundred cases of police officers being shot there are no examples that show an officer being put out of commision by rounds stopped by their vest. There is some limited difference in the ability of a IIA vest vs the IIIA but it is not much in a practical sense. The IIIA will stop some rounds associated with heavy hunting handguns but there is little threat of an intruder using an 8 3/8" Superblackhawk with heavy handloads. Even still Rich Davis (of Second Chance) had shot himself 181 times when I met him in 96, most of those were with a 6" S&W 29 with a 240 gr Black Talon. Some were with other, better penetrating rounds and most all were while wearing a level IIA without the added protection of his 'Soft Core' improvment.
If that doesn't convince you, I traded my IIIA for a IIA about five years ago.
Double Naught, most trauma plates don't have any added protection and certainly not rifle capable protection. The best I have seen are Second Chance (yes, I am a fan) they do provide extra protection (the steel plates anyway), they will stop AP handgun ammunition and .30 carbine but they are a far cry from rifle plates. Most trauma plates only spread the impact over a larger area. On another issue, being shot by a rifle while wearing level III or IV will thump you less than shooting the rifle. Same impact on a much larger area. I liked your answer on the 'need' issue by the way.
Some of the latest generation body armor is actually concealable. Second Chance has some outstanding stuff, light thin and flexable but Safariland and others do as well. My experience has me using Second Chance now for comfort mainly but also because of the favorable impression I have of Richard Davis. In case any of you are wondering, I manage a police equipment company and an indoor shooting range. We sell body armor but not Second Chance, I still reccomend Second chance for concealable body armor.
If that doesn't convince you, I traded my IIIA for a IIA about five years ago.
Double Naught, most trauma plates don't have any added protection and certainly not rifle capable protection. The best I have seen are Second Chance (yes, I am a fan) they do provide extra protection (the steel plates anyway), they will stop AP handgun ammunition and .30 carbine but they are a far cry from rifle plates. Most trauma plates only spread the impact over a larger area. On another issue, being shot by a rifle while wearing level III or IV will thump you less than shooting the rifle. Same impact on a much larger area. I liked your answer on the 'need' issue by the way.
Some of the latest generation body armor is actually concealable. Second Chance has some outstanding stuff, light thin and flexable but Safariland and others do as well. My experience has me using Second Chance now for comfort mainly but also because of the favorable impression I have of Richard Davis. In case any of you are wondering, I manage a police equipment company and an indoor shooting range. We sell body armor but not Second Chance, I still reccomend Second chance for concealable body armor.
You can read the specification over here http://www.nlectc.org/
Here is an excerpt:
Here is an excerpt:
2.1 Type I (22 LR; 380 ACP)
This armor protects against .22 caliber Long Rifle Lead Round Nose (LR LRN) bullets,
with nominal masses of 2.6 g (40 gr) impacting at a minimum velocity of 320 m/s (1050 ft/s) or
less, and 380 ACP Full Metal Jacketed Round Nose (FMJ RN) bullets, with nominal masses of
6.2 g (95 gr) impacting at a minimum velocity of 312 m/s (1025 ft/s) or less.
2.2 Type IIA (9 mm; 40 S&W)
This armor protects against 9 mm Full Metal Jacketed Round Nose (FMJ RN) bullets,
with nominal masses of 8.0 g (124 gr) impacting at a minimum velocity of 332 m/s (1090 ft/s) or
less, and 40 S&W caliber Full Metal Jacketed (FMJ) bullets, with nominal masses of 11.7 g
(180 gr) impacting at a minimum velocity of 312 m/s (1025 ft/s) or less. It also provides
protection against the threats mentioned in section 2.1.
2.3 Type II (9 mm; 357 Magnum)
This armor protects against 9 mm Full Metal Jacketed Round Nose (FMJ RN) bullets,
with nominal masses of 8.0 g (124 gr) impacting at a minimum velocity of 358 m/s (1175 ft/s) or
less, and 357 Magnum Jacketed Soft Point (JSP) bullets, with nominal masses of 10.2 g (158 gr)
impacting at a minimum velocity of 427 m/s (1400 ft/s) or less. It also provides protection against
the threats mentioned in sections 2.1 and 2.2.
2.4 Type IIIA (High Velocity 9 mm; 44 Magnum)
This armor protects against 9 mm Full Metal Jacketed Round Nose (FMJ RN) bullets,
with nominal masses of 8.0 g (124 gr) impacting at a minimum velocity of 427 m/s (1400 ft/s) or
less, and 44 Magnum Semi Jacketed Hollow Point (SJHP) bullets, with nominal masses of 15.6 g
(240 gr) impacting at a minimum velocity of 427 m/s (1400 ft/s) or less. It also provides
protection against most handgun threats, as well as the threats mentioned in sections 2.1, 2.2, and
2.3.
2.5 Type III (Rifles)
This armor protects against 7.62 mm Full Metal Jacketed (FMJ) bullets (U.S. Military
designation M80), with nominal masses of 9.6 g (148 gr) impacting at a minimum velocity of
838 m/s (2750 ft/s) or less. It also provides protection against the threats mentioned in sections
2.1, 2.2, 2.3, and 2.4.
3
2.6 Type IV (Armor Piercing Rifle)
This armor protects against .30 caliber armor piercing (AP) bullets (U.S. Military
designation M2 AP), with nominal masses of 10.8 g (166 gr) impacting at a minimum velocity of
869 m/s (2850 ft/s) or less. It also provides at least single hit protection against the threats
mentioned in sections 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, and 2.5.
found the armor i want !
Well I just did some research and I think I found the exact model of armor that I want.
It's the second chance Ultima +P+.
This thing passed the NIJ Standard STD-0101.04 for Level IIIA armor, and ALSO passed the NIJ Standard STD-0115.00 for Level III Spike.
Well I just did some research and I think I found the exact model of armor that I want.
It's the second chance Ultima +P+.
This thing passed the NIJ Standard STD-0101.04 for Level IIIA armor, and ALSO passed the NIJ Standard STD-0115.00 for Level III Spike.