I'M Getting Mine, Who Cares About You

A

AR-10

New member
I'm posting this here in the hopes that it is less likely to turn into a flame-fest. If it does, I hope it will be locked quickly.
  • I cannot understand the attitude of someone who says "I know S&W is politically,well,stupid, but I like their guns" and then proceeds to make multiple new gun purchases. Does such a person need a remedial course in reading comprehension? Are the guns THAT good, that it's worth throwing away more freedom of choice to own one? Is it that dificult to read The Agreement and then visualize what a Prefered S&W dealer's shop would look like a year from now?(very little stock, very high prices)
  • I'm starting to believe this boycott issue is like the Pro/Anti Gun Control issue.You either believe one way or the other.Well, I want everybody to feel the same way about this as I do, right NOW, dagnabit!
 
*&* will be gone before a year from now. As an individual who always loathed the appearance and feel of *&* semis and is not a wheelgun fan at all it makes absolutely no difference to me BUT, had I been a *&* type I'd still not touch anything they have, even used.

(Rant on)

Why? After all, so I hear, they were just trying to get by in the Real World(tm). My automatic reply to that comment is always "So what!?" Does their right to survival give them a right to undermine every other company out there and damage the Right of American Citizens? They made a bargain with the devil. One they should have known would result in devastation, but rather than stand with us they folded in the hopes nobody would notice and if we let them survive like this we tell every other manufacturer that, yeah, if things get too rough you go ahead and cave too. We'll all still line up to buy whatever scraps you and a Socialist government ALLOW us to have. This boycott is not like any other issue. We have no choice but to strangle them NOT because of what they did but to make certain nobody else follows them in to hell.

(Rant off)
 
I would be surprised if even half of the people who are boycotting S&W have read through the agreement.
I personally don't agree with the S&W boycott, but I would certainly prefer that people at least make an informed choice on the boycott issue.

As for people continuing to buy S&W, what about continuing to buy from companies that still do business with S&W?
Don't misunderstand, boycotting these companies also won't make the S&W boycott the right thing to do, but it would be the right way to boycott.
 
I read the agreement. Smith & Wesson should be shunned. If you want a Smith, buy used. You'll save money.

I hope to see the company go under and its assets sold to someone who is firmly supportive of the second amendment.
 
Yep, read it also. They made a bad tactical mistake AND shunned their own support base. It was their choice. Now they have to live, and die, with it. As far as boycotting companies that do business with *&* I might EXCEPT that these companies 1) Did not make the choice to enter into this agreement and 2) Many have no choice in the matter since *&* is, at least for now, their bread and butter.

Smith made the choice, all the rest of us are victims of it in one form or another.
 
What S&W agrees to in their own business practices is their own problem. What doomed them is that the full text of the agreement gives them and the government "authority" (!?) to micro-manage other companies which had signed nothing. IOW, if I were to agree in court to break Tamara's leg and steal Don Gwinn's guns as a condition of a settlement, wouldn't I experience a rather adverse public reaction as well?
 
I read the agreement. Smith & Wesson should be shunned. If you want a Smith, buy used. You'll save money.
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If you feel S&W must be boycotted, then it would only make sense to shun them totally. In the context of the S&W boycott, there is no difference between a new & used gun.
Why don't I go out and buy as many NEW S&W handguns as I can afford, and then immediately post them for sale here, now that they are USED?

Yep, read it also. They made a bad tactical mistake AND shunned their own support base. It was their choice. Now they have to live, and die, with it. As far as boycotting companies that do business with *&* I might EXCEPT that these companies 1) Did not make the choice to enter into this agreement and 2) Many have no choice in the matter since *&* is, at least for now, their bread and butter.
Smith made the choice, all the rest of us are victims of it in one form or another.
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S&W has publicly stated that they signed the agreement because they felt that the cost of defending against the frivolous lawsuits would eventually bankrupt them. This makes sense, as no company has infinite financial resources.
So, S&W should have just kept up the good fight until they depleted they're resources and went bankrupt, but companies that continue to do business with S&W have no choice because they need to stay in business? This is simple justification for continuing to buy products that you want, and it's rather obvious.
I also did not make the choice to enter into the agreement.
In fact, it has also been publicly stated that Ed was the person solely responsible for signing the agreement. Unless you have irrefutable facts stating otherwise, by your reasoning even S&W is not to blame. Of course, it's not feasible to go after Ed as a person, because what he did was not illegal. That does not mean, however, that you should settle for the "next best thing" and go after S&W, who is at best guilty by association.
This is the very kind of thinking behind the frivolous lawsuits. Hold the Mfgs. responsible for what the guns are being used for. Does that kind of thinking make any kind of sense?
How about more gun control laws because you can't stop the criminals?

*&* will be gone before a year from now. As an individual who always loathed the appearance and feel of *&* semis and is not a wheelgun fan at all it makes absolutely no difference to me BUT, had I been a *&* type I'd still not touch anything they have, even used.
Click to expand...


So because I don't like "assault weapons" there was no reason for me to oppose the AW ban? Unless your a gun owner, there is no reason to oppose gun control legislation?
This kind of short sighted limited thinking is what creates the most trouble.
ANY gun company going out of business has an effect, and it should make a very big difference to you.
Any gun company, just by being in business, does more to safeguard your 2nd Amendment rights than most gun owners do in a lifetime. This is a simple fact, and is also rather obvious.
The same can be said for any licensed gun dealer...

I've heard it stated several times that S&W must DIE!
Okay, let's say you manage to put S&W out of business.
How many gun companies are you willing to put out of business before you realize that you need to attack the source of the problem instead of the symptom?
 
You're preaching to this member of the Choir, dude.

I've been into numerous terse exchanges with those who think gun owners are giving S&W a raw deal, and continue to do business with them.

To them I say, "thanks for trying to ruin it for the rest of us."

I know some people say there's no difference between a new S&W, from which the company makes a profit, and an old S&W, which left the comapny three owners and 50 years ago, and generates not a single cent of profit for the corporation.

That's tortured logic at best, and flat out wrong.

Purchasing a USED Smith & Wesson revolver is a chance to educate people around you while you're making the purcase as to WHY you're buying used, and not new.
 
It's like this, mikemck; you're trying to justify the fact that you want what they sell. Fine, so be it. I don't, but even if I did I would not buy it because what the company did(and Ed IS, or was, The Company) was wrong. The only means WE have of doing anything about it is to refuse to buy their products. To continue buying them is literally saying, hey, no problem, do whatever you have to do...regardless of the long range consequences.

As for comparing Smith to the larger picture of bans, this is simply absurd. Smith made a concious decision to kiss ass for the Almighty Dollar. It is, in no possible way, similar to Bans whether I personally liked their products before hand or not.

As for questioning the financial aspect and whether Smith would have been better served fighting the good fight, you tell me: Look at the gun suits, AND THE FACT SMITH IS STILL GETTING HIT, vs the damage they did by betraying a trust to their customers. Which will get them wiped out faster? As I said, a bad tactical mistake.

You give us a way to show S&W what we think of the damage they have done and we might try it, until then I'll buy nothing they cough up, will encourage everyone I know to do the same, and do no business with any shop that willingly stocks their stuff. Likewise, any business which does business with S&W on a larger scale that can be shown to have been involved in their decision and supported it I'll refuse to do business with as well.

You can justify this in your own mind all you wish but the simple fact is they blew it, there are a very limited number of responses we the public can make, and the best and most effective is to simply forget them. There are plenty of other makers and most of the products are better than Smith anyway.
 
Let me make sure I have this right.
Anyone who thinks the S&W boycott is wrong, is "trying to ruin it for the rest of you"? Is that about right?

And I don't need to justify anything to myself, because I'm not buying any S&W guns. Understand though, if I did want to buy them, I would certainly do so. From my point of view, the only justifications are the ones used to continue buying products you don't want to do without, regardless of the companies that Mfg. them.

And S&W does benefit from USED guns, in the same way that they benefit from having Jerry Miculek shoot S&W guns and in the same way they benefit from advertisements in gun magazines.
Again, in the context of the S&W boycott, there is no difference between new & used.

And the companies that continue to do business with S&W are kissing ass for the almighty dollar also. What's your point?

So you won't do any business with any shop that stocks S&W stuff 2nd Amendment, but buying products from other Mfgs. that do business with them is just fine with you? The companies are supporting it just by continuing to do business with S&W! How is that different than some shop that stocks S&W? Your logic is flawed at best.
Are you now saying you want to close down every gun shop that stocks S&W? What if that amounted to every local gun shop in your area?

And what would you have the MA residents buy, now that S&W and Walther are about all they can legally buy? It's very easy to boycott S&W when you have several other choices, which you have been careful to leave for yourself, but it's not so easy when your choices are very limited.
 
Okay, let's just stop this before it goes any farther...
I'm done with this thread, as these "debates" always degenerate into insults and accusations.
 
I agree with the voice of reason...

all you "activists" have probably never bought a half dozen Smiths between you so your whole premise is belied by your crocodile tears. If there is one of you who was a serious lover of S&W and actually forbore from buying any, I'd be surprised, but I would also apologize to THAT individual. All the rest of you are just a bunch of poseurs, like any political hack. No, I am not buying any S&Ws. I just know a phony when I see one.
 
I currently own 3 Smith and Wesson model 19's 1 Model 29,1 Model 22s with 2 xtra barrels, and have within the last 18 months, owned and sold 1 Model 617 and 1 Model 66. I figure that quailfies me all by myself to exceed the 6 gun requirement. I had planned on buying a new Schofield and a new Model 41 in the next year. In all fairness, these are the only 2 current S&* firearms that fit my personal taste. I had considered a couple of others, the Kit gun for one, and possibly a .380, but hadn't quite made up my mind on that. My decision not to purchase a post agreement S&* firearm was made after I read the entire agreement. Smith and Wesson,particularly the K-Frame series was my first true centerfire love, and will always be at the top of my list of favorite guns. past present or future. I don't like the current round frame configuration of the present K-frame series, so I can't honestly say that I am missing out on that particular item. The Schofield and the 41 are givens. I wanted both, but choose not to buy them because I believe I can't justify it in any way shape or form as anything other than supporting a company that has sold not only us, but the entire shooting world down the river. Now for a real gut check. A custom knife maker that I have a great dealof admiration for, is from all indications, going to go into an agreement with S&*. I don't have any details at this point, but my desire for the collaboration products is a given. Again, I can't in clear concience purchase them. I DO NOT LIKE what S&* has done to us,,,all of us. I am displaying my dislike in the best way that I can, and that is to vote with my $$$. Feel free to look at it any way you wish. I've made my decision, and my decision does not include any NEW products from S&*. Yeah. It irks me to see S&* referred to as Smith and Weasel. I've mentioned it once before right here on TFL. Smith and Wesson was a great old American company, and it saddens me to no end to see their name dragged through the mud. They have however overstepped their bounds with the agreement, and deserve to0 be called on that. Realisticly, my measly $2000.00 or so purchase isn't going to make or break a mfg. and I fully realize that. I have no hard feelings for anyone, supporter of a boycott, or non boycotter. You do what your concience tells you to do, and allow me to do the same.

BigG,
I'm not fishing for an apology, and don't expect one, since I don't consider myself an activist and you're perfectly welcome to your opinion on the matter. I don't agree or disagree with what you said. For me it's simply a matter of concience, not a rallying point of activism.
 
economic point

The market will drive companies. If we boycott companies that are willing to flush the Second Amendment down the toilet, then they will gradually go out of business. The supply of firearms will drop as these traitors drop. If demand stays constant or increases, the other companies will take up slack and/or new companies will start manufacturing firearms (Glock is relatively new compared to S&W).

Companies that support gun control schemes, ARE supporting the demise of the Firearms industry. Consider this: when the government makes it so much more difficult to obtain a firearm, like here in PRNYS, demand drops. When demand drops, the industry suffers.

A boycott is the most effective way to send a message to a company and the industry.

Yes, we will solve the problem by kicking the pinko politicians out of office, but it's also useful to send a message to the firearms industry letting them know that they will be punished for cooperating with the enemy.
 
Since I was eighteen, I've wanted a 686 stainless with a 6" bbl. I also find the model 99's very attractive. S&W made some of the finest mass-market handguns going IMO. I do have a M19 which is the finest handgun I've got.
After the agreement though, I've leaned to Browning, Beretta, and will consider a Glock. Why? because these companies faced the same lawsuits and gave the litigants the finger. What is surprising is that Glock and Beretta are foriegn owned companies. Who can forget when old-man Beretta told the crybabies in Maryland that his handguns will NEVER have a built-in trigger lock or any other such PC nonsense. Those are companies worth doing business with. I only wish they made revolvers.

I also boycot Colt and Ruger plus a myriad of other companies associated with gun-control to include Murray, Sprint, Levi's, Burger King, and K-mart. I've got a little list of people I can do business with, but once I get used to it, it isn't really hard.
 
What about Glock doing the Ballistic fingerprinting? Don't see anything wrong with that? Or how about the new fingerprint friendly finish that they still won't admit to..

How about Charlton Heston stating publicly that we don't need "assault weapons"?

And if your starting a list of companies to boycott, you need to have AOL & Time Warner on there as well.
 
Why don't I go out and buy as many NEW S&W handguns as I can afford, and then immediately post them for sale here, now that they are USED?

If you want to lose money like that, go right ahead. The reason behind buying a used smith (specifically pre-agreement) is to avoid giving smith money. I don't like to see people get thrown out of work over the CEO's stupid decisions. I haven't bought any new smith's, but mostly due to their high cost.
 
Let's get this straight!

Lets all say this together - Smith & Wesson ISN'T GOING AWAY! Repeat that every morning when you get up and every night before you go to bed.

What WILL happen is they will be sold by Tomkins, who is the real VILLIAN in this boycott of S&W. And the boycott will give them a huge red spot on their corporate books until they dump the company.

Anybody who thinks they will allow S&W to wither away and then just close them has no business sense what so ever. So, I guess you have to ask yourself just one question.

"Are you going to support the post Tomkins S&W? Well, are ya punk?" (large apologies to Clint Eastwood and his S&W 44).
 
FYT

It is wrong headed to want to destroy domestic civillian arms maker who makes the best quality of concealed carry revolvers for civillians.

It is wrong headed to choose a self-defence weapon that is inferior with the only reason being one of politics.

Hate me, IDGAS, IMO SMITH and WESSON makes the best light weight concealable revolvers on the market. I buy what I want from who I want.

I'm buying a new SW342PD.
 
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