I'm confused.

M

Mike38

New member
I'm very confused. My wife would agree with that, but that subject would be off topic. :eek:

I recently purchased a pistol off Gallery of Guns web site. Had it shipped to the nearest to me dealer. It came into the dealer's shop today, so I went in to square up the funds, fill out the paper work, etc. I haven't bought a new gun in over 5 years, so I knew things may be slightly different. The Federal form was 6 pages long? But only the first page and a half is filled out by the buyer. Ok. Then the lady at the counter said she had to retain a copy of my Illinois Firearms Owners ID, and fill out another paper. Ok. She was required to ask me what my intended purpose was for the firearm. What? It's a gun, I'm going to shoot it! She again asked me the intended purpose. In reality it will be a pocket mouse gun (Kel Tec P32) but I don't think it's anyone's business, so I said target shooting, which is what I will do to determine it's reliability before trusting it as a carry gun. Then she asked me the type of work I do. What? Why does it make any difference if I flip burgers at McDonalds, or if I'm a brain surgeon? She laughed and said she'll put down brain surgeon. No, better not lie, I'm an Electrician.

Why is it necessary to answer my intended purpose and what job I have? Enquiring minds want to know? Is this a Federal thing, or state of Illinois thing?

Then to top it off, she reminded me of the 3 day waiting period, yea, ok. But added the Illinois check system is behind due to lowered staffing at the Government level, and it may take longer (Covid-19 thing). She said she has guns at the shop that have been sitting for 18 days now, and the buyer has yet to be approved for pickup. You mean it could be a month before I can gain possession of my gun? Yep. Illinois, ya gotta love it.
 
Sounds like an Illinois thing.


The last firearm I bought was in stock, walked into the store and left 25 minutes later (the counter wasn't busy) with it.
 
That's an old law but was rarely used until recently after dealer licensing was passed and the state "reminded" dealers they had to ask those idiotic questions.

As for the 3 day wait it actually starts the minute you agree to buy the gun (per the Illinois State Police), not when you fill out the 4473 or when it arrives at your FFL. If they start it later that's their company policy, not the law. I have bought guns online and by the time it got to the FFL the 3 days were up and I walked out with the gun after the 4473 and instant background check.

There's consequences for voting for the blue party. You're lucky you still have an FFL, mine left the state after that stupid dealer licensing law and more than half have moved out of state or closed their doors for good already, which was the real intent of the law.
 
Yeah . . . same here . . .

Last LGS purchase I made asked the same questions. Said the state was making them do so.

Local Range owner is a former LEO with connections a the state level. At my CC renewal class he said the state of IL had just hired ten more people to process FOIDs and was going to hire ten more. So we'll see.

Life is good.
Prof Young
 
the "intended purpose" and "occupation" questions are state things, not Federal. Some states don't care, others want the info to create a database of what kind of people are buying guns, and for what reasons.

back when I lived in NY, (1970s) it wasn't an individual purchase thing, but there was a "use/reason" block on the form for getting a pistol permit.

Judge in one county wouldn't approve a permit if it said self protection. He would only approve if the stated reason was "hunting and sporting use".

Judge in the next county wouldn't approve anything BUT "self protection" as the reason. Very flawed system.

No, its really nobody's business, but if your state thinks it is, then in your state, it is.
 
you are confused because you are trying to apply logic and reason to a constitutionally protect right that has been infringed upon by a draconian state.
 
Just two days ago I took the required classroom time and live fire qualification to renew my Illinois CCL. I asked the instructor about this 'intended use' and the 'occupation' questions. He told me that those questions have been law in Illinois for 20+ years, it's just that no one enforced it until recently. Even 20+ years ago I do not remember being asked these questions. I told the instructor my answer of target shooting, and he said that was the best way to answer it. I then told him I said Brain Surgeon for the answer to occupation, and it sure made for a good laugh. Oh well, it's Illinois. If it wasn't for my good job and all my family living here, I pack my bags and move.
 
My buddy moved to Illinois and still asking; WHY ???

I live out of state and the last Gun-Show, I attended in Illinois, Learned about another Illinois-Thing. This show is known to have lots of "Vintage" M/L stuff and I was shopping for a custom horn. While looking, I saw a rifle on a rack that I had not seen before. As usual, asked the dealer if I could look at it. He asked me for My FOID card and I told him that I did not have one but I would get it transferred to one of my state's dealers. He said by law, he could not let me hold it. Oh well, I did find my horn. ..... :rolleyes:

Be Safe !!!
 
Pahoo said:
I live out of state and the last Gun-Show, I attended in Illinois, Learned about another Illinois-Thing. This show is known to have lots of "Vintage" M/L stuff and I was shopping for a custom horn. While looking, I saw a rifle on a rack that I had not seen before. As usual, asked the dealer if I could look at it. He asked me for My FOID card and I told him that I did not have one but I would get it transferred to one of my state's dealers. He said by law, he could not let me hold it. Oh well, I did find my horn. ....
Click to expand...
I believe New York (state) is the same. If you don't have a New York permit, you aren't allowed to touch a firearm.

Maybe that applies only to handguns? Not sure.
 
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca View Post
I believe New York (state) is the same. If you don't have a New York permit, you aren't allowed to touch a firearm.

Maybe that applies only to handguns? Not sure.
Click to expand...

I grew up in New York State, got my pistol permit in the 1975, at age 18. In those days, a permit was required to possess a handgun. It took 5 sets of fingerprints, 4 photographs (passport type) 3 character references (who were NOT family members), and in the end, was entirely at the issuing judge's discretion to approve or deny, for any reason they deemed fit.

The pistol(s) were listed on the permit, by maker, caliber, serial number, and barrel length. The permit was valid for those guns, and ONLY those guns.

The permit was also valid for life, unless revoked, which again, was at a judge's discretion. The permit was non-laminated paper, with your thumbprint on the back and your picture stapled to the front, and embossed with the state seal through the picture.

Due to an auto accident where my parents were slightly injured we learned that if Dad had died, his pistols would have to be surrendered to the police, IF no one else in the household had them on their permit. Sheriff would hold them IF you applied for a permit, until the permit was approved or denied.

State /city police would hold them 30 days, and then destroy them, if no permit had been issued by that time.

Mom, and my brother and I then all got permits with all Mom & Dad's pistols listed on them. Rifles and shotgun didn't require any permit or other state paperwork, only the required Fed paperwork at the time of purchase.

It has changed since then, not for the better, IMO.

I left NY in 79, for good. About 2002 NY sent me a letter, informing me that, since I was no longer a NY resident, my permit was no longer valid. And, THEY WANTED IT BACK!!! (that's right, the wallet sized non-laminated paper (not even card stock like the driver's license) that they issued in 1975, they wanted it back!

AND, they also wanted to know WHERE the guns listed on that 1975 permit were!

My response would violate TFL's language filters, but "go pound sand" is close enough to get the idea...

Every state has their own rules about guns, and the one I moved to was wonderful, compared to NY, 40 years ago. Today its not as good as it was, and likely to get worse, but its still better than many others.

for now, anyway....
:(
 
an Illinois thing! I would not even pass through Chicargo.
Love Florida. Glock 19 4th gen, on bedside table, in holster when outward bound.
Could be worse, could still be in Canada, or England.
 
Alot different here in Iowa, walk in to my FFL, with carry permit and drivers liscense, fill out a form, five or ten minutes and out the door with my weapon. terry:D
 
the one thing I don't understand about the fed. form you have to fill out for a hand gun is that they want to know what nationality you are (white, black, latino, hispanic, non-latino, or other) I am white so I check the box, but I must also check the non-latino box, WHY is nationality so important aren't we all Americans...
 
coonbait said:
WHY is nationality so important aren't we all Americans...
Click to expand...
Actually, no. I'm pretty certain that legal immigrants (green card holders) can possess and purchase firearms.

Technically, the 4473 doesn't ask for "nationality." Question 11 asks for the place of birth. Question 18.a asks for Ethnicity, and question 18.b asks for Race. Question 19 asks for your country of citizenship (which, I concede, is nationality, but they use a different word), and then question 20 asks for your alien registration number, if applicable.

This is from the new Form 4473, dated May 2020.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4...n-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download
 
Actually, no. I'm pretty certain that legal immigrants (green card holders) can possess and purchase firearms.
Click to expand...

IIRC, you are correct. There was a court case that started locally where a longtime legal resident was denied a purchase permit ..... he took them to court and won.
 
WHY is nationality so important aren't we all Americans...
Click to expand...

Just one more identifier "Tag" so they can put your statistic in the right box.

Also a holdover from the days when it was a needed id. Back in the days before Social Security numbers your race was the way to determine identity and while they now use other identifiers as primary they still ask.

J. Smith the white guy and J.Smith the black guy. and J. Smith the native American are all the same J.Smith without the ethnic identifier.

Aren't we all Americans??
yes, we are, but here's something to twist your sense of reality, we ARE NOT all US citizens. In fact most of us aren't.

Technically, the only actual United States citizens are the ones in US territories. Those of us who live in states are citizens of that state, not US citizens....technically.

Nobody makes that distinction in conversation, but it is a distinction in legal matters. I would, however recommend putting US in the block asking for citizenship, its what they expect to see, and a different answer, while technically correct boggles little minds and could get your form rejected.

I'm also very, very tempted to put "human" in the box asking for race. but I refrain, and use the expected choice because I want the paperwork processed, more than I want to make a point about language use.
 
When the new 4473 was up for comment, I got into it with the BATFE over question 18.b. For race, they list
  • American Indian or Alaska Native
  • Asian
  • Black or African American
  • Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander
  • White
If you go to the instructions for question 18.b, in order for someone to properly check the box for Native American or Alaska Native, they have to be "A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America), and who maintains a tribal affiliation or community attachment." They don't impose any "tribal affiliation or community attachment" on any other race. Technically, someone could be 100 percent Native American but not living on a reservation and not an enrolled member of any tribe. Such a person shouldn't check the Native American box.

The BATFE response was--basically--we know it doesn't make sense but OMB told us to do it that way so stifle yourself.
 
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