Illinois Residents--truth about Safe Neighborhoods Act

D

Don Gwinn

Staff Emeritus
I feel kind of bad about this, because I was the one that reported that the Safe
Neighborhoods Act changed Illinois law so that you couldn't transport a firearm
with ammunition near the gun anymore. I reported that because I'm so gullible that
I believed the WGN News report on the law rather than looking it up myself.
Lesson for today: Never trust the media, even to be able to read.


Thanks to Ken from Northern Illinois, who emailed me the ISRA commentary on the
new law, I went to www.gunssavelife.com which has a link to the actual law as
posted by the state, here:
www.legis.state.il.us/pub...-0690.html

It's interesting reading. In FOUR places it defines the offense of Unlawful Use of a
Weapon and what you have to do to be exempt exactly the same way:

(4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or
concealed on or about his person except when on his land
or in his own abode or fixed place of business any
pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm,
except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or
affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the
following conditions:
(i) are broken down in a non-functioning
state; or
(ii) are not immediately accessible; or
(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case,
firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other
container by a person who has been issued a
currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card;
or

So, IF you have a FOID card, you can CHOOSE either to make your gun
inaccessible (like putting it in the trunk, to comply with ii) or to unload it and
enclose it in a case (to comply with iii.) If you unload it and place it in a case, and
if you have a valid FOID card, you're legal. There's no mention anywhere of
ammunition except that the gun can't be loaded; thus it's legal to load the
magazine and put it in the case next to the gun. There's also no requirement that
a gun that's cased be inaccessible. So if you wanted to, say, keep a Glock in a
small case between the seats, unloaded, but with ammunition loaded into the
magazine and in the same case or nearby, that's perfectly legal.

The bad part is that this has always been the actual law and it has never been
enforced this way. The State Police mostly believe their own claims that the gun
must be inaccessible AND cased AND the ammo must be inaccessible to the gun.
Local cops follow their lead and it gets worse the closer you get to Chicago. So
chances are this is only a defense for someone who can afford to fight it out in
court--odds are, you'll still be arrested even if you're following the law. I just don't
want anybody to think the basic facts of life in Illinois have changed.
 
I know nothing about Illinois law. However, I have heard of LEO's taking the position that a loaded magazine is tantamount to a loaded gun. I would assume that regulations issued pursuant to your statutes, and / or court decisions (common law) might clarify such an interpretation.

Good luck. Sorry you're in such a 'difficult' state. Come to AZ ... we need more folks that remember what liberty means.

Regards from AZ
 
:confused: What is an abode??? I am not following. The gun can be in the glove compartment but not loaded then? Or does it have to be in the trunk? Lets not forget that it is illegal to have a handgun in the car period in Chicago. I wonder if you can even pass through Chicago with it if you are traveling. This is so stupid, just let us carry already. So I can carry on my property? Meaning if I want to cut the lawn and wear it on me that is legal? LOL OH YA! Does it have to be concealed if I do that? That sure would bring a whole new meaning to cutting the lawn wouldn't it? :) (The neighbor walks over to 'yap' I have a gun on me, look up and say YEah I am pulling weeds leave me alone :D that'll work) I briefly read the link you gave but I wish they could write in in plain English lol. If I were you I would send an email or letter to WGN letting them know they are letting out incorrect information. Next inlaw family party I'll find out from one of the many 'machine' cops what the deal is.

------------------
Sandys' Homepage
RKBA forums
We are as one as we all are the same fighting for one cause -Metallica
 
Miss D Your abode is where you are abiding.

Sorry about that, but every now and then my wierd sense of humor gets out of control.
 
Sandy, abode is just another name for house or residence.

I've always believed in the loaded magazines = loaded gun bit. I think there was an Illinois case where a guy was charged with having a loaded gun when he had a loaded magazine. I think it was somewhere near Champaign. I think he won his court case too.

Until recently I've never transported w/ loaded magazines. Also, until recently, I've only had puny politically correct post-ban magazines (with the exception of 12 round 22LR mags). Now that I have 20 and 30 rounders for the AR and M1A, I load some before going to the range. More shooting time - less magazine loading time. :)

So if I understand this correctly, SUV owners can have their cased firearm right next to the ammunition. Sounds good to me.

[This message has been edited by jcoyoung (edited April 28, 2000).]
 
Sandy,

You mentioned the possibility of someone going through Chicago on their way to somewhere else. Nobody in their right mind would even think of going through Chicago on the way from one place to another. They'd use the bypasses.
 
Here is an e-mail bulletin I received from ISRA.
Blackie

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

- http://www.isra.org

* * * * I S R A Information Notice No. 00017 * * * *


Capitol Commentary
By Todd Vandermyde

(of 4/16/2000, late because I was on vacation, my apologies - Tom Skuse)

This past week saw some activity at the capitol on firearms issues.

HB-739, the bill that would create the offense of Aggravated UUW passed the House with 92 votes. There was a little debate and Representative Cross read into the record cites from certain court cases to clarify the intent of parts of the legislation. In short order, the bill was reported to the Governor and signed this week.

While the newspapers have been touting the "felony" portion of the bill, they have all but ignored the misdemeanor portion of the bill. They have also miss-reported the section concerning ammunition and it's location.

The location of ammunition only becomes an issue if three things are present:
The firearm is uncased
The firearm is unloaded
Both the firearm and the ammunition are immediately accessible.

You can transport a firearm that is unloaded and in a case anywhere in the vehicle. You can also have the ammunition for said firearm anywhere in the vehicle. For what ever reason, these "journalists" can't even read one
sentence in a bill. This past week, I kept my Springfield 45 in it's soft case, unloaded, with 8 magazines of Black Talons in the case. It was legal when I went to Springfield this week, it still is today.

However, since the signing of the bill into law, certain people have begun to examine the law more closely. And they are not linking what they see. For example, to be eligible to be charged with a felony, the firearm must be:
A) the firearm possessed was uncased, loaded and immediately accessible at the time of the offense; or
B) the firearm possessed was uncased, unloaded and the ammunition for the weapon was immediately accessible at the time of the offense;

Note that in both subsections, the requirement is that the firearm be uncased. If you have a case, and a loaded firearm, it is a misdemeanor. Under the Bruner decision, a woman carried an unloaded, cased handgun into a
court building. The felony UUW charge was thrown out saying she met the exemption of unloaded and in a case. If under Bruner a purse constitutes a case, as the court found, then a loaded handgun in a case, does not meet the felony charge threshold.

In Bruner, the court found:
"The facts are undisputed. Defendant came to the Macon County courthouse on a small claims matter. At the security checkpoint she handed her purse to the deputy and proceeded through the checkpoint. The deputy examined her purse and discovered an unloaded gun in a case and a valid FOID card. Defendant was then charged with the felony offense of unlawful use of weapons…"

"We agree with the trial court the exemption "may allow for mischief." However, it clearly applies to defendant because her pistol was unloaded, in a case and she had a valid FOID card" People vs. Bruner

There are yet more parts of the bill they have yet to figure out that will clean up the law and make it a little easier on firearms owners. More to follow as we don't want to tip all of our hand just yet.

In the closing hour of the this years General Assembly, Daley and company must have gotten word about the cased & load language that got past them. Because at 7:30 at night, the House Rules Committee, discharged HB-224 to
the floor for consideration. HB-224 was one of Mayor Daley's gun control package bills that would turn the State Police into a mini-ATF. It would require the registration of all firearms, and license all FFLs with a state issued
dealer license just to name a couple of the provisions.

As this last minute attempt to ram rod this bill through late in the session, House Republicans conferred with NRA lobbyists about the bill. As quick as it was reported out to the floor, republican leadership called the Speaker and informed them that if this bill was called for debate, they would call an immediate caucus and would not return. The bill was not called. Lee Daniels deserves credit for putting the brakes on this scheme that the city was trying to cook up.

Shortly there after, they adjourned until November. Mark Twain's premise holds true, "no mans life, liberty, or property is safe so long as the legislature is in session."

This summer leaders of both the NRA and ISRA will be meeting to set the agenda for next year. Preemption and right to carry are on the agenda. Daley spent a lot of time, trying to get us, it's time they started chasing us.

They're gone for a few months. Next stop the elections. That entails rewarding our friends and punishing our enemies - a lot.

IN-46\A1\40-17
 
LOL I think I had abode confused with commode :D I couldn't understand why they would mention toilets LMAO oh a big DUH on that one. Why can't they just use house? What is so hard about that? Even residence would be good. Guess I better clean the abode :D.

Sometimes I think they make the law so confusing so you do mess up and they can arrest you and take your gun away.

About passing through Chicago, of course they would use the bypasses but I mean if you are going from suburb to suburb. Chicago cuts in on alot of suburbs, one minute you are in Park Ridge, the next Chicago, then you are in Norridge. To get into Norridge or Harwood Heights you have to enter Chicago for a little bit. ohh nevermind :)

------------------
Sandys' Homepage
RKBA forums
We are as one as we all are the same fighting for one cause -Metallica
 
Sandy,

I know exactly what you mean. As you know I grew up in Franklin Park. Spent many a Saturday at the HIP in Norridge. Also used to skate at the Axle. Yes, you do have to go through a bit of Chicago to get there. If I lived in Norridge and took my gun to Gun World in Bensenville or Bell's in Franklin Park to go shooting, I'd have to go down Irving Park Road to get there. I really don't think if you got pulled over in front of the William Tell Inn that the cops would give you much trouble if you had your pistol cased in the trunk. In the case of Chicago cops a picture of Ben Franklin would probably get you off.
 
This is for all Illinois residents and any other police state residents reading this.

The right to keep and bear arms is an unalienable God given right here in America, which further shall not be infringed upon, so says our Constitution. Every one of the hundreds and thousands of gun control laws, regulations, and ordinances ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!! Clear infringements upon our unalienable RIGHTS!

Use common sense when contemplating the decision about arming yourself. You do not need Big Brother, Uncle Sam, Heir Mayor Daley, or Komrade Klinton telling you and/or any of your neighbors what they should or shouldn't do! For God's sake, you're arming yourself to defend yourself and/or your family. You're not out to do a freekin drive-by! or hold up a drug store!

The only reason a police officer would have to search you or your vehicle is IF YOU GIVE HIM A REASON! DON'T GIVE HIM ONE!

You get pulled over for a traffic violation and the cop asks if you have a weapon in the vehicle, what is your answer? Your answer is, "NO!!!!" NO, NO, NO, No! Otherwise, you are simply inviting trouble home. He asks, "Do you know how fast your were driving?" You say, "Yes Sir, I must have been going slightly over the posted limit." That's ALL. PERIOD! Take your silly ticket and quit crying.

A further word of caution. Do not drive your vehicle while under the influence of any alcoholic beverage or narcotic. This IS A REASON FOR A SEARCH!!!! When traveling to and from the range, throw a towel or coat over your range bag, or put it in the trunk!

When carrying concealed...USE YOUR HEAD! If people cannot see your weapon, you will be fine. Don't pick a fight, mouth off to anyone, step on a big guy's foot, or check out the hot blond on the arm of a potentially jealous boyfriend/husband. If you look for trouble, you will certainly find it (or it will find you).

Being a responsible American, gunowner, gun toter, etc. requires just a bit of consideration for your fellow man. Is that too difficult to understand?

And remember a right does not require a license, permit, or permission slip from mommy. With each right that you submit to the growing tyranny, you tighten your own shackles. Quit bitching about not being free, and act like a FREE MAN!

The purpose of the gun control agenda is to DISARM you. You're not actually going to let that happen are you? Not in your home, not in your place of business, not in your vehicle, NOT ANYWHERE!
 
Paul Revere,

Acting like a free man in the manner you propose will quickly place you under the direct supervision of my employer. I'd rather obey the law.
 
houndawg...

You find me a person that is currently under the "supervision" of your employer that has followed my recommendations to the letter, and I will personally see to his legal fees.
 
Paul, I respect your outlook though I don't put much credence in some of your conspiracies. But please don't presume to tell me that it's unmanly of me to obey the law when possible. I work pretty hard at changing the law, not breaking it.
 
Don Gwinn...

I find that comments like yours come from frustration. My above reply, as are most of my replies are not directed at individuals necessarily, but TFL readers in general. Many of the posts I read on here are from frustrated people. People that are tired, upset, outraged, fed up, and yes...frustrated. Believe me, I understand how frustrating it is trying to remain a law abiding good guy, while our elected officials continue to legislate us into automatic felons. We've committed no crimes, we care about our fellow countrymen, we are passionate about our beliefs, and we just want to live our lives without some government telling us how to do it. I believe this describes both of us.

The "conspiracies" that you say are mine, are anything but mine, and they certainly are NOT theories. I wouldn't expect most people who haven't done the research and studying on the subject that I have to "give credence" to any of them. The idea that the American people have been lied to (on the broadest of terms) is a very difficult thing to swallow. But I guarantee you one thing, that if you had read one half of the recommended books and links I've included in my posts, you would have never made that comment in your last reply.

I urge you to go back and re-read some of my posts on various conspiratorial topics. Check out the links, buy a few of the books I recommended, and find out for yourself what's really happening to our rights. This small investment of your time will pay huge dividends. It will help you understand that your efforts are being wasted on these small time politicians. They are helpless themselves. But understanding and focusing on the real root of the problem will put nitroglycerine into your efforts.

We have been conditioned to act (or not act) on the basis of "FEAR". Once you understand what we are up against, your fear will disappear (or increase depending on your individual level of tolerence), and confidence will be restored (or at least strengthen). Do the homework and find out for yourself. Knowledge is power.

[This message has been edited by Paul Revere (edited April 28, 2000).]
 
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