Illegal Immigration - Big Issue for 2008 Elections?

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butch50

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Immigration law violators are not immigrants . They are aliens who are in the United States in violation of law. There is a profound difference between individuals who legally apply for admission and fulfill all the requirements for admission, and those who decide to enter the United States, or intentionally overstay their visa in violation of law.
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Istook To Co-sponsor Illegal Alien Census Bill

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) Oklahoma Congressman Ernest Istook plans to co-sponsor a proposed constitutional amendment that would count only U.S. citizens when apportioning congressional seats.

Istook says that if the amendment had been in place in 2000, Oklahoma would not have lost one of its six U.S. House seats.

Under the proposal, illegal aliens and those who haven't completed the naturalization process would not be counted in the apportionment of the 435 U.S. House seats.

The Congressional Research Service says if it had been in effect for the 2000 Census, the plan would have shifted how nine House seats were apportioned.

California would have six fewer seats, while New York, Florida and Texas would have one fewer. Oklahoma and eight other states would have one additional seat.
Source: Associated Press
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20 MILLION ILLEGAL ALIENS?
By Michelle Malkin · January 03, 2005 11:02 AM
Barron's has an important lead article out today on "the underground economy" (password required). According to Robert Justich, a senior managing director at Bear Stearns Asset Management in New York, current estimates of the illegal alien population (most news articles cite the old 8 to 13 million figure) are too low. He puts the figure at 18 million to 20 million.

The article's author, Jim McTague, notes some devastating consequences of the failure to enforce our immigration laws--and he does so with a bluntness that is unusual for the usually open-borders-friendly business press:

[T]he underground economy is undermining the effectiveness of the Internal Revenue Service, which is highly dependent on employees' withholding taxes. If the IRS could collect all the taxes it says that it is owed from the underground economy in a given year, then the current budget deficit would disappear overnight. And if the IRS could collect these taxes every year, then the nation would have surpluses as far as the eye can see.
The IRS has estimated that its tax gap -- the estimated amount of taxes owed minus the amount collected -- is around $311 billion in any given year. The agency will produce a new estimate in 2005, and it could be as high as $400 billion, says former IRS Commissioner Donald Alexander.


McTague addresses pollyannas who note that our underground economy is smaller than other high-tax European countries:

To be sure, the U.S. underground economy, as a percentage of GDP, is smaller than those of some other countries. In a 2000 paper in a publication of the Independent Institute, a nonprofit research organization, Schneider found that Greece, as of 1998, had the largest underground economy, at 29% of its GDP, followed by Italy at 27.8% and Spain at 23.4%. Countries with high tax burdens and high social security costs lead the list.
But the sheer growth of the underground economy in the U.S. is cause for concern. If Justich's estimate of illegal immigrant workers is correct, the underground economy may now be growing at a markedly faster rate than the legitimate economy. Justich, working with Bear Stearns colleague Betty Ng, an emerging- markets economist, says he's found evidence of a larger illegal immigrant population by analyzing data on construction and on remittances sent from the U.S. to Mexico and other countries. He also had conversations with over 100 immigrants from Mexico, Brazil, the Dominican Republic, Guinea, China and Tibet. And he interviewed local business owners, real-estate sales people and police...


McTague also considers the impact Justich's research may have in Washington:

A larger number of illegal immigrants also would have a profound impact on coming discussions on immigration reform. President Bush proposes temporary amnesty for illegal aliens already in the country, allowing them to obtain permits to work legally for three years and stay longer if their jobs otherwise can't be filled by native-born workers. But if there are, in fact, 20 million illegal aliens, the Bush proposal could engender a situation not unlike the German unification of the 1990s, which triggered huge demand for social services in East Germany. Unanticipated costs here could be enormous.
The article should be must-reading for every member of Congress as President Bush prepares to foist his amnesty plan on America.
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My opinion is that illegal immigration should be a MAJOR issue in the 08 elections. One thing to remember, Texas and Calirfornia, both with a large number of electoral votes and opposing political views (conservative vs liberal) are probably the two Sates most negatively impacted by illegal aliens.
 
I agree. While I agree with our current President on alot of issues, his lax policy concerning illegal aliens just plain SUX. I'm not racist in any way, nor do I have a problem with people coming to this country LEGALLY. After all, if it weren't for LEGAL IMMIGRATION, I wouldn't be here today. (My families came from Scotland and Ireland respectively)

But this vast flood of illegal people is WHY jobs are scarce, and its WHY my wife works her but off for minimum wage, because companies can hire illegals for PENNIES. It should be taken more seriously, and the flood of illlegals MUST STOP. It is DESTROYING THE ECONOMY.

I'm mad now, so I've said enough...... :mad:
 
Ideally, the issue should come in the form of making legal immigration to the United States easier for unskilled laborers. As long as they're going to come, they might as well earn minimum wage and pay taxes.
 
We have to remember illegal immigration as an issue is not a democrat vs republican issue. It is division between the ruling class (or caste) and the taxpaying class (or caste). Both parties and contributing to the problem. The divide is between those who benefit economically from the presence of illegal immigrants and those who pay the bills for their presence.

That said, I think both parties will cobble together a plan designed to shut up the "screamers." Screamers are those in the taxpaying class who vocally object to current lack of an immigration policy. Both parties have a vested interest in shutting up screamers and continuing business as usual. As long as there is serious money associated with illegal immigrants nothing substantive will be done. It will take a flat out rebellion by the taxpaying class to put the fear of God into the political class before anything will really be done.

Want evidence of how to stop the screamers? Chertoff held a press conference and said the federales will get tough on illegals. He proceded to list a host of initiative that trim the edges of the problem. What was completely absent was any reference to workplace enforcement. In other words, the single most effective initiative to stopping illegal immigrants was absent his plan to get tough.
 
What was completely absent was any reference to workplace enforcement. In other words, the single most effective initiative to stopping illegal immigrants was absent his plan to get tough.
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Workforce enforcement doesn't work and can't work. It is an attempt to hand off law enforcement responsibility to business, and it hasn't worked yet. It boils down to this:

Govt tells buisness owner (bo) to check the applicants documents, and gives a list of what documents to check. So bo checks the documents and makes copies for the file in case govt ever checks up on him. Govt rarely ever checks, but when it does it finds that bo has checked and copied the documents. Documents are forged but it isn't bo's responsibility (or in his ability) to prove documents are real as long as they look real.

Small businesses that don't pay taxes don't bother (landscape companies that work out of the back of a truck for instance) with paperwork anyway. Most of the day labor jobs have no paperwork.

Govt can't pass off resposibility to businesses to enforce the immigration laws. Govt has to do the one thing that will work - seal the borders.
 
Mexicans Send Record $20B South of the Border
NewsMax.com Wires
Tuesday, April 19, 2005
Mexican emigrants will send as much as $20 billion in cash this year to relatives in Mexico, according to projections by Mexico's Central Bank.

That figure is three times what total remittances were five years ago, when the amount was $6.6 billion. If the 2005 estimates hold true, remittances probably would become the largest source of foreign exchange in Mexico, bank officials said, surpassing even oil.

Bank President Guillermo Ortiz projected that over the next seven to eight years, remittances will grow by 20 percent annually. He also raised the expected growth rate of the nation's economy to 4.2 percent, from the 3.8 percent initially forecast.
The explosive increase in remittance money, officials have said, is a reflection of policies of President Vicente Fox's government that are aimed at reducing the cost of Mexicans abroad sending money home.

Some non-governmental analysts say, however, that the jump merely mirrors a rise in illegal immigration into the United States. "The sad truth is that Mexico still can't create enough jobs to keep its countrymen home," said Luis Miguel Rionda, an immigration expert at the Colegio de la Frontera Norte in Tijuana.

He added that the figures also reflect improvement in Mexico's ability to measure the money flow.

"This is a phenomenon that reflects the harsh economic reality that belies the rhetoric coming from our politicians," he said. Remittances are critical to Mexico's economy. Unlike other economic engines, whether oil, tourism or foreign investment, remittances have proved more resilient to economic downturns.

Today, nearly 11 million Mexicans call the United States home, census officials estimate. That's about 4 percent of the U.S. population - but almost 10 percent of Mexico's population of 105 million.

Mexico and India lead the world in the value of remittances their diasporas send home, ranking ahead of China, Pakistan and the Philippines. Last year, India received $17.5 billion in remittances from the United States.

Money sent home to Mexico helps sustain households and keeps many citizens from falling deeper into poverty. But, there are consequences, some analysts say. As more dollars flow south, more Mexicans ponder heading north in search of their own bright future, Rionda said.

One such person is Gerardo Mendoza, a 19-year-old worker at a tequila distillery in Arandas, Jalisco. Fresh from two years of waiting tables in Los Angeles, Mendoza had dreams of settling down in his hometown. He now plans to once again head north, in the fall.

"It's better when you're the one sending the money," he said. "Not when I have to wait for my brother to send it to me."


(c) 2005, The Dallas Morning News via NewsCom.
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Any guess as to why Mexico will raise all the sand it can to keep us from closing our border?
 
:mad: They are economically destroying our country bit by bit, and we are taking it like a suppository :mad:

If they want to come in, come in the legal way. :mad:
 
It will absolutely without a doubt be a huge issue in 2008. You'll see both sides running, not walking, to take the strongest stance on it. You can already see some possible candidates maneuvering to get on the "right" side of it.
 
I doubt they'll do anything. Even though is should be, they simply aren't treating it as an important issue.
 
IMO 08 will be too late. This is a critical issue to the degree that it demands active and decisive steps immediately. We are already swamped as it is; a few more years of this and things will be pretty grim.
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http://ssunitedstates.org
 
"Ideally, the issue should come in the form of making legal immigration to the United States easier for unskilled laborers."

I am not entirely decided on that issue, but I think it's a double-edged sword. It's true that we will always need some unskilled laborers to pick crops, flip burgers, etc., but in the long term picture, what is the result of importing vast numbers of unskilled people who are more likely to make use of our "social services" (that's "welfare" to those of you who don't live in California) when in general, skilled engineering, programming, and manufacturing jobs are being exported offshore?

Tim
 
It's true that we will always need some unskilled laborers to pick crops, flip burgers, etc
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Actually we are home raising people for those jobs, just read report that
25% of white teens drop out of school along with 50% of Hispanics and
blacks, so we have that covered. :rolleyes:
 
So far two Democratic governors of border States have called a state of emergency. Two republican governors of border States have not.

Are the democrats going to take the lead in this? Where do the Repbulicans stand on this issue?

It scares me to think that the liberals are going to be the party to try and fix this national emergency while the conservatives spin on their thumbs.
 
Are the democrats going to take the lead in this? Where do the Repbulicans stand on this issue?
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I don't see how the Dem's could take the lead on this long-term. It would be a giant flip-flop for them, as they have been the ones in the past promotiong and sponsoring legislation to give illegals drivers licenses, etc.

OTOH, I hope SOMEONE makes it a big issue in the '08 election. I don't care who.
 
Democrats take the "lead"

Fabian Nunez, Democratic speaker of the California House, is calling for a "state of emergency". However, at the same time, he is calling for an amnesty for those illegals already here. He is clearly taking advantage of the issue for his own partisan purposes, but not "solving" for the benefit of American taxpayers who bear the burden of educating, medicating and incarcerating illegals.
 
For anything to be "a major issue", the two parties are going to have to take opposite views on the issue.

Doesn't look like that's going to happen.
 
well, I wish the two sides would take the SAME view here and make it a strong one. You know, uniter not a divider..let's walk the walk here and take some real anti-terrorist action by CLOSING THE US BORDERS!
 
Bcannell,
Ideally, the issue should come in the form of making legal immigration to the United States easier for unskilled laborers. As long as they're going to come, they might as well earn minimum wage and pay taxes.
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I strongly disagree with this concept. It’s the same thing as saying, “People are always going to speed, and as long as people are going to, you might as well change the law so they can”. The proper way to deal with an issue is to decide if an action should be illegal or not, and enforce the law accordingly. In this case I strongly believe that the United States (or any nation) not only has the right and should, but even has the duty, to make a determination in each and every instance if an individual should be allowed to immigrate. An illegal alien, by his very action, denies the United States the ability to make that determination. In my book, that makes that illegal alien an undesirable immigrant.
 
Waitone,
Want evidence of how to stop the screamers? Chertoff held a press conference and said the federales will get tough on illegals. He proceded to list a host of initiative that trim the edges of the problem. What was completely absent was any reference to workplace enforcement. In other words, the single most effective initiative to stopping illegal immigrants was absent his plan to get tough.
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That is simply not true. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) is the “new” department handling the majority of workplace enforcement, and ICE is now going though some serious hiring; ICE investigators, deportation officers, etc. Chertoff has made it clear that interior enforcement is going to be beefed up. There has been a budget “crisis” in ICE, but it is over now. The new fiscal year has big increases for ICE and that bodes well for immigration issues. Moreover, ICE is attempting to increase the ability of non-investigators to deal with certain classes of in-country illegals, which will be a major force multiplier for everybody dealing with interior enforcement.
 
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