Illegal hunters

J

jakec2789

New member
I hunt on a military installation. One of the BIG rules is NO BAITING!!!! Well I went to check my trail cams and on the way in I discover a pile of corn with a stray camera on over the pile. So, instead of calling the local range patrol, I take the memory card out of the camera and proceed to look at the pictures. Sure enough, there stands a 1st Lt. in uniform standing over his corn pile staring at the camera. So I politely put the card back in the camera and call the range patrol out to show them my discovery. Well, they call him, take into possesion his camera and shovel the corn up and I get a notice to see my commander this morning. I recieved a royal butt chewing because I "ratted" out a LT. I told him politely that why should I accept anything but 100% law compliance? I put in the time and effort to scout, prepare and try to get deer in the natural routine, why should I let some and officer do anything but that, and then call and whine to my commander because he got busted breaking the law.
 
That's a good example of what's wrong with our country today. It used to be that those in higher office were held to a higher standard. Now, a higher office buys you more acceptable levels of corruption. It pathetic.:barf::mad:
 
People allow unethical behavior, then complain when someone points it out. So much for the ethics of your CO.
 
I do not know where you are stationed but I would be on my way to the IG office.

I am assuming the CO is a captain. Let the IG ask his Bde commander about it and see what happens.

If you don't want to do that ask for an interview with your Sergeant Major. Bn or Bde which ever is appropriate and let him speak with the Bn or Bde commander.

This falls in the same category as sexual or racial discrimination.

This all also assumes that the Lt was really planning to hunt and not just take pictures.
 
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Guess your CO needs to review the Army Values

Do what’s right—legally and morally.

The American people rightly look to their military leaders not only to be skilled in the technical aspects of the profession of arms, but also to be men of integrity.

People of integrity consistently act according to principles—not just what might work at the moment. People of integrity do the right thing not because it’s convenient or because they have no choice. They choose the right thing because their character permits no less.

Conducting yourself with integrity has three parts:

Separating what’s right from what’s wrong.

Always acting according to what you know to be right, even at personal cost.

Saying openly that you’re acting on your understanding of right versus wrong.
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or your behaviour:

Face fear, danger, or adversity both physical or moral.

Personal courage isn’t the absence of fear; rather, it’s the ability to put fear aside and do what’s necessary.

Personal courage takes two forms, physical and moral. Good leaders demonstrate both.

Physical courage means overcoming fears of bodily harm and doing your duty. It’s the bravery that allows a soldier to take risks in combat in spite of the fear of wounds or death.

In contrast, moral courage is the willingness to stand firm on your values, principles, and convictions — even when threatened. It enables leaders to stand up for what they believe is right, regardless of the consequences. Leaders who take responsibility for their decisions and actions, even when things go wrong, display moral courage. Courageous leaders are willing to look critically inside themselves, consider new ideas, and change what needs changing.
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These are from the FORSCOM website. I spent 8 years enlisted and 12 as an officer. You did the right thing - other than I question previewing the video card before calling Range Control.
 
There are a few natural laws that trump most everything else.

"Stuff" rolls down hill being one of them.

Nobody said doing the right thing would be easy. Pat yerself on the back for having the courage. Let's hope the "stuff" storm isn't too bad.
 
Well, the line has been crossed. My squadron commander is a Lt. Col. And it doesn't matter whether he was just wanting pictures or planning to hunt. By the base rules it is still illegal on the base or the surrounding range area to bait for any reason. On private property it is legal, but on base property it is not. The first seargent wants to speak to me about it anyways, and as an avid sportsman I feel that he will side with me. He is not a fan of the commander anyways.
 
Jake, are you sure it was really a chewing you received or just the old man trying to figure out what happened? Sometimes the 2 can be confused.

As a Maj preparing to pin on Lt Col, I can tell you I'd appreciate you holding the line and keeping the LT in check if you were one of my troops given the scenario you provided. Game laws are there for a reason. If the LT can't be trusted to maintain his integrity on something as simple as game laws, how could I trust him to make the right calls leading troops in combat?

I do side with David, however. I would not have touched the camera. Just report it to Range Control, the Wildlife Center, or whoever the authority is.
 
right thing

The problem w/ being a "good man" is that there's little demand for one these days.

You did the right thing, and now have provided a "character test" for others Those who are giving you grief over your actions, are failing the test.

I once witnessed a guy take a turkey illegally (two in one day) on pvt property/ off-duty. I contacted a local WCO, swore to a complaint, the violater was served and subsequently penalized. Some in that lease had a real problem w/ it.
I figure they were all potential violators as well.

Note well, who stands by you and who gripes, for future reference when the chips are down.
 
Note well, who stands by you and who gripes, for future reference when the chips are down.
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+1 bama. Those that gripe don`t care about the law and have some serious character issue`s themselves. Wonder if 1st Lt. teach`s his kids in the same manner?
 
Nothing wrong about a corn bait pile no matter where it is, it's a false worry about transmiting from one deer to the rest. The deer eat this way their whole life plus it's been proven this does not transmit like anti's want you to think, yes it was against the grain but not a bad thing so it's not worth your comander been on your butt. Hope your season gets better!!
 
I bet you can find a reference in your code of conduct that says you are supposed to do exactly what you did and that the code does NOT include anything about not turning in superiors.
 
vafisher, There is nothing wrong with growing and selling marijuana (cept the tax evasion issue), There is nothing wrong with making white unaged corn liquor and selling it (pesky tax evasion thing again...)

Baiting deer is illegal in florida so it is WRONG. A 1stLT should be earning enuff pay to support a family if he is wisely using his money so I won't entertain the "...had to feed my family..." from an officer, commissioned or not.
I actually hold our military troops in high regard but also expect them to honor their oath and local laws moreso than any politician by a long shot...

I am not holier than thou, I know many who maintain feeders all season long. I do my best to avoid accepting invites that put me shooting over these but I have found myself in a pickle a time or 20. I just make the decision not to take a shot but have pointed out deer to the inviter. I have my values and they have their's.
Brent
 
VaFisher, antis have nothing to do with this issue. The deal is about playing by the rules of the game. Sure, there's nothing inherently wrong with baiting, except that in this case it's against the rules.

Ethics is all about playing by the rules when nobody's looking.

Separate issue: Baiting for any length of time sets up an imprint on animals. Even if the baiting ceases, animals will follow the imprinted path which goes to or past the bait area. I know this from tracks which are fresh in the area where I either had a feeder or where the feeder became empty. So, even if the Lieutentant's motives were purely from curiosity, his action meant that deer would continue to come through that area. Anybody knowing that area would have an advantage over others--and last I heard, hunting is supposed to be an equal-opportunity endeavor.

And while there's room for agreement as well as disagreement with hogdog's tax example, DON'T GO THERE!
 
As a retired officer of the United States Air Force, who served in a non-commissioned status (OK, I was a Master Sergeant [Non-commissioned officer]), I would be with you, if you were my troop, when you went to see the First Sergeant. I would also ask to get an appointment with the commander and explain to him why he might have been out of line.

I used to get real upset when someone in my chain of command would "butt chew" one of my troops and I was not present. Somewhere in your chain of command you must have a SNCO who stands up for their troops. (I am not talking about the SNCO who bad mouths the commander and every officer on the installation, but the one who will stick up for you when needed and will put the boot up your backside when also needed.)

Globemaster may be right in his evaluation of the incident. Most of the time, in my experience, by the time a commander has had Lt Col on for awhile he/she relaxes and realizes we are all human. I do not know what rank you are, but it seems strange the commander would chew your butt with-out someone else present. Either way, you took it as a butt chewing and that is wrong. Talk with the First Sergeant and go from there.
 
Well, the First Seargent and I spoke today. We went to see the commander, and he apologized for chewing my butt. He was under the impression that it was on private land, not the base. So he politely apologized and even thanked me for holding a commisioned officer to a higher standard. All is well finally.
 
Thanks for the update. I am glad things worked out and I am glad you have a First Sergeant who looked out for the troops.

P.S. - Did you invite the commander to go hunting with you?
 
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