"Illegal Gun Dealer"??

P

Paul Revere

New member
Continuing the thread on the alleged "illegal gun dealer" in Illinois that sold the nut case (Benjamin Smith) his pistols.

Would an "illegal gun dealer" have RECEIPTS of the sales in his possession if he was a "gun runner" or an "illegal gun dealer"?? The answer is an astounding NO. These receipts were found in the seller's home. The receipts obviously covered all of the required information to make the transaction LEGAL in the State of Illinois. And, these firearms (sold to Smith) were purchased legally by the seller, hence the paper trail that lead the FBI to his home. How would any private party seller know if a potential purchaser's FOID card had been revoked? The seller's responsiblity according to State law is to record the FOID information along with the model and serial numbers. Revoking an FOID is much like suspending a driver's license. You can still show it to buy booze or as ID. Same with a revoked FOID card. Unless the card has been confiscated by authorities, it can still be used.

My understanding of the definition of a firearms dealer is a person who transfers firearms for profit or for his business, with exemptions for individual private sales, collectors, etc. But a private individual who may buy several firearms, shoot them a few times, or just look at them, wipe them off now and then, and then eventually sell them...is making a private sale, which is perfectly legal (in Illinois).

If this guy was a private individual selling his own private firearms, which he most likely was (media slant excluded), with proper paperwork and such, then leave the guy alone. If he was an "illegal street dealer" (as defined today in the WSJ), he wouldn't have a) placed an ad in the local paper, b) had the seller come to his home, or c) transferred a receipt with the sale. Illegal street dealers are those scarey characters that we hear about running guns to street gangbangers out of the trunks of their cars without receipts and phone numbers etc. This was an elderly man who's hobby included buying firearms, and then eventually selling them. Doesn't this sound like most of us?

This is the beginning of a long attack on private firearm sales. Just wait and see.
 
Paul Revere,

I wish I could say you're wrong, but I think you've nailed it. We are under a massive assault and we are really taking some heavy body blows right now.
 
PR, I agree with you last statement. I think the attack is coming on private firearm sales and I suspect "they" will win. I say this because, again, we are a minority.

I hate to say this but the 2nd wouldn't be taking a beating so badly if the economy were bad...

The idiot politicians would have a real issue to deal with.

CMOS
 
I think he was being investigated as a "street dealer". The search warrant was served on 1 July, before Smith ended his life in Southern Illinois and the guns were recovered.

The ISP and several northern police departments have been running an operation to track guns showing up in the hands of gangbangers in Chicago. The ISP has been using instant check records to see how amny guns a person purchases. This has been going on for some time.

I agree that we are under attack and taking body blows, but let's wait and see what the details are. I agree that there was no way this guy could have known Smith's FOID was revoked.

I think now should be the time to counter attack. This case proves that even with all of the restrictions Illinois has on firearms purchases, someone determined to get a gun for illegal purposes will...Like Littleton we should stop focusing on the tools and start focusing on the criminal. The system in Illinois worked! Smith was unable to by a gun from a gunshop. The antis are focusing on the wrong issue if this guy was in fact trafficing in weapons. I think it would be better for their cause if he was an innocent citizen who was unable to know if the FOID was valid.

Jeff
 
I've been watching the news to try and figure out what the charges against this "illegal gun dealer" are. No luck.
BUT...The news did report he has sold 59 handguns this year alone. This doesn't sound like a hobby to me. Sounds to me like he was an illegal gun dealer.
 
I have to admit that I'm a little confused about certain aspects of FFL's and this might be a good place to clear that up.
As I understand it, back in '68 when dealers were required to obtain FFL's in order to conduct interstate transfers of firearms, etc., these licenses were fairly easy to obtain. Since then, the feds have been steadily raising the threshold required to obtain or keep a FFL, forcing many former holders to relinquish their licenses because they simply do not conduct the volume of business necessary to meet current requirements.
By weeding out these smaller dealers, thereby denying them access to the background check machinery, haven't the feds created the very situation we now see with this "illegal" dealer in Illinois?
 
I guess what I'm asking you all to do is what all of us should be doing, and that is, question everything spilled out of the media bowels. Look at what is really being said here. Don't assume that you're hearing the truth, assume that it's a fabrication...read between the lines.

Since the perp(s) in this case and the Columbine incident cowardly left the scene of the crimes via bullets to the head, the attack is therefore transferred from the criminal to the "cause" or "root" of the incident. In this last case, it is a bombardment onto the supplier of the tools, since the user of the tools cannot be punished.

What I hear is what your neighbors down the street who may be on the fence hear. That people who have a lot of guns are very likely to be selling them to the wrong people. And in turn they should be "controlled". This feeds the thoughts of turning in your neighbors who you suspect may have several firearms, as a potential arms dealer.

And the timing for the release of the movie, "Arlington Road" (opening 09 July) comes at a perfect time to perpetuate this angle for the gun grabbers.

Is it coming together yet for you? It will, just wait and see.
 
Lets calm down a minute and look at this in another way. Us pro-gun people have been saying to punish the criminal not the honest gun owner. If the guy turns out to be an ILLEGAL dealer...we, as a group, should demand that he be run up with the morning colors! It wouldn't do our cause much good trying to protect him just because he is a gun owner. Lets wait and see what the facts are.
 
Not protecting anyone! Just NOT falling into the trial by public opinion trap. I agree that if this man is found guilty in a court of law (and only then), then fry his butt, but until that time he is INNOCENT!

Remember, the media has created an image for the ignorant, of all gunowners as walking time bombs. All potentially criminals in waiting. Anyone affiliated with guns is demonized by the press, including Charleton Heston (Moses for God's sake). According to the press, all gunowners or those affiliated with guns are GUILTY of whatever is being accused, even before they are indicted, tried, or prosecuted. After Columbine, the media went after 3 million law abiding NRA members as if they were to blame for the crimes of two nut cases.

Don't fall into their trap. We are smarter than that.

Gunowners need to rise above this media propaganda, and look through their smoke and mirrors. Stop relying on the press for your facts...chances are they are not facts at all.

What we should be supporting is JUSTICE. Trying someone through media hype is what we should be protesting. Prosecuting those that commit crimes begins in the court rooms not news rooms.

What you will inevitably begin to see from here on out is a frontal attack on law abiding gunowners who legitimately sell firearms, be it at gun shows, through the paper, or to their friends. Remember, the perceived problem is about crime prevention, but the reality is about civilian disarmament. Colored to make the ignorant look in one direction, while their rights are being attacked from behind.

Every single gun related incident (local) is now being played on the national scene. This is done for a reason you know. It is nothing more than exploitation...propaganda, which brain washes the masses. And it's working like a swiss watch.
 
don't get too wound up over number of guns sold until you know more about it. i know several older people who have VERY large collections(60 years gives plenty of time to build up ) . possibly , the man is converting his collection to cash to live on. don't try him before he is charged. if he was buying and reselling , maybe it would be as a dealer, but the facts are not in yet.
 
Anti-gun logic is a little hard to follow sometimes. Diane Carmen of the Denver Post (paper known to be very anti-gun) wrote a column Wednesday about how the fact Smith bought his guns from an illegal dealer was reason to pass the law to limit us to one gun per month purchase. I guess you have to be an anti-gunner to understand how those connect.

OJ
 
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