Ignorant question, please answer

S

SamH

New member
This question probably sounds stupid, but is the 30-06 cartridge same as the Russian 7.62x39mm ?

I ask this because the 5.56x45mm is said to be equivalent to the .223 Remington, and the 7.62x51mm equivalent to the .308 Winchester. I was just wondering if the popular 30-06 Sprinfield had an equivalent military cartridge.
 
"... is the 30-06 cartridge same as the Russian 7.62x39mm ?"

No. The .30-06 case is, if I recall correctly, 63 mm long.

Most 7.62x39 ammo is loaded with .311 bullets because most foreign mfr rifles chambered for it have .311 bores. I think Ruger chambered this round in the Mini 30 with a .308 bore.

"... I was just wondering if the popular 30-06 Sprinfield had an equivalent military cartridge."

The .30-06 is a military cartridge. It succeeded the 30-40 Krag as the standard US military cartridge and was adopted in it's present form in 1906. But today, I believe it is only found in military surplus weapons. Over the years ... '03 Springfield, M-1A, M-14, M-60. It has no real dimensional equivalent in military use today. The closest to it is the 7.62 NATO (7.62x51 or .308 Win).
 
SamH,

I have often - well Ok twice that I recall - seen the 7.62x54 ( 7.62 Russian ) referred to as Russia's 30-06. That may be where your comparison arose.

The 30-06 is ( in Euro speak ) a 7.62x63 ( per Sensop ). The parallel may be drawn because both are longer than the 7.62x54 ( 308 Winchester ) and have POTENTIALLY that bit more oomph.

Concur fully with sensops analysis.

Would only add a note on 'ignorance' - I'd say that only applied if the thought never struck you to ask in the first place! I have shot since I was five - now thirty six. Still learning - that's what keeps me interested. Must say that rate of learning has gone up dramatically since joining this site!

Merry Christmas USA.

Oakleaf ( Andy )
Dallas ( Morayshire, Scotland - not Tx )
 
There are also some differences between 5.56 vs. .223 and 7.62 vs .308. Mainly chamber pressures.

IF you want a relatively good source for cartridges differences and general ammo information, try getting ahold of Cartridges of the World. It's a catalog sized soft bound publication that gets revised every now and them but contains a wealth of information concerning ammunition.
 
Re: THE Cartridge Reference

SamH - - -

The book to which hksigwalther refers, Cartridges of the World, by Frank C. Barnes is, in my mind, the best single reference source to have on hand. It is (fairly) newly revised, and is available through Amazon.com. For such a treasure trove of information, it is amazingly low-priced--Somewhere around twenty dollars, if I recall correctly. Make yourself a gift of it, if at all possible.

The popular (and useful) practice of comparison of foreign cartridges to familiar domestic cartridges seldom means they are interchangeable. It is often said that the 7.62x54 is the Russian .30-06. Similar statements for others, as well: 7.92x57 (8mm Mauser) is the European '06; the .303 is the British '06, etc, even though the latter two use a somewhat larger diameter bullet.

The confusion is compounded in that the 7.62x54 DOES use same diameter projectile as the '06 (.308 inch,) whereas the 7.62X39 likes a slightly larger one (.312??) Barnes says the 7.62x54 was factory loaded with .310 bullets but does fine with .308. I have never loaded for it myself, though.

Suffice it to say that unless you have interchangeability information on VERY good authority, you should ONLY shoot ammo specified for a particular arm. As Sensop and Oakleaf said, the European designation for .30-06 is 7.62x63. And, I recently bought some South African ammo marked 7,7x56R ball R1M3Z, which is nothing more nor less than .303 British. And, of course, practically all foreign military ammo for the .308 Winchester is marked 7.62x51.

Welcome to the wonderful (and often confusing) world of international ammo schtuff. ;)

Happy Holidays - -
Johnny


Johnny
 
A minor correction to an earlier post. The 30 caliber of 1906, other wise referred to as the 30-06 was never chambered in the M1A, M14, or M60. Those weapons all chambered the military equivilant of the 308, the 7.62 Nato round.

The 30.06 was chambered in the 1903 Springfield, the M1 Garand, the Browning BAR and the two Browning machine guns (I think the 1917 versions), one air cooled and the other water cooled. The 30-06 was the 30 caliber cartridge of WWI, WWII and Korean War fame. The 308 came along later, in the mid 1950s.
 
SamH, TFL is the best firearms encyclopedia I've ever seen, and frankly ... it is a heck of a good example of what some folks call an "intellectual pool of capital". I don't think I've ever been brought up short by someone because of one of my questions ... usually nice, polite, accurate answers, often with references to related web sites and books.

And, the way each of us pays back such help is to offer our help in turn to folks with a bit less experience than ourselves. Great system.

Cartridges are interesting ... and sometimes not even the diameters you would expect from their designations ... e.g. .38 Special / .357 Magnum.

Happy holidays to you and your family.

Regards from AZ
 
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