..pusher?...I think the gas price thing is supply and demand with a little quick profit taking as soon as barrel prices jump...what we need is more domestic drilling, relax overly-rigid regulations for refinery building, more consistent gas-modification between states for pollution control, and a little wiser use of gas among the citizenry...and less condescending talk from our government leaders, among them..Bush..
If we are gas addicts..is Bush's family the...
- Thread starter aspen1964
- Start date
Yeah....I'm sure that President Bush, his entire family, Karl Rove, and Halliburton were planning these high gas prices for years. It is a giant Bush conspiracy. The high gas prices are entirely President Bush's fault. John Kerry and the Democrats will save us.
Yet another "bash President Bush" thread.
Yet another "bash President Bush" thread.
Fremmer did you EVEN read my thread?... once again.. the high price of gas is supply and demand...but Bush's comments are somewhat insulting...and his so-called inquiries into big oil are just political fluff...we need more domestic production.....I bash Bush when he deserves it and lately he deserves a lot, although it is not related to gas prices...it is failures in other important areas...
the high price of gas is supply and demand...but Bush's comments are somewhat insulting...and his so-called inquiries into big oil are just political fluff...we need more domestic production.....I bash Bush when he deserves it and lately he deserves a lot, although it is not related to gas prices...it is failures in other important areas...Other than the gas taxes, the gov't has very little direct control over what you pay for gas. Generally speaking though, they would like to see them lower because they get the blame.
They are indirect effects based on regulations, tax breaks, tax structure etc. This do, in fact, have a great deal to do with the price of gas in a zillion ways. And the gov't does try to affect the market with changes. The problem with this is the law of unintended consequences. Every change you make has effects you never thought of.
For example, take the now-defunct assault weapons ban. The anti-gun crowd thought they had a great thing going (well, some did, many knew it wouldn't have any real effect and was merely symbolic). Manufacturer's knew that new >10 round mags would be banned so, prior to law taking effect, they ran their lines flat out making as many as they could. Evil black rifles are banned so they make a couple minor cosmetic changes that don't affect the function at all and keep on truckin.
The market will always adjust to current regulations. Other than preventing monopolies, there are few "market-control" type laws that do anything but hinder the market and thus increase costs and prices. We have to decide which regs and controls are worth the increased cost.
Adam Smith was a genius. It's not exactly light reading, but I highly recommend The Wealth of Nations if you want to get a good handle on economics.
They are indirect effects based on regulations, tax breaks, tax structure etc. This do, in fact, have a great deal to do with the price of gas in a zillion ways. And the gov't does try to affect the market with changes. The problem with this is the law of unintended consequences. Every change you make has effects you never thought of.
For example, take the now-defunct assault weapons ban. The anti-gun crowd thought they had a great thing going (well, some did, many knew it wouldn't have any real effect and was merely symbolic). Manufacturer's knew that new >10 round mags would be banned so, prior to law taking effect, they ran their lines flat out making as many as they could. Evil black rifles are banned so they make a couple minor cosmetic changes that don't affect the function at all and keep on truckin.
The market will always adjust to current regulations. Other than preventing monopolies, there are few "market-control" type laws that do anything but hinder the market and thus increase costs and prices. We have to decide which regs and controls are worth the increased cost.
Adam Smith was a genius. It's not exactly light reading, but I highly recommend The Wealth of Nations if you want to get a good handle on economics.
With a dwindling world supply of oil and a greater demand for oil in other countries such as China and India, I seriously doubt that oil companies see a pressing need to build more refineries in this country, even if environmental regulation was loosened. Enjoy today's gas prices, you'll never see them this low again.
Yes, I did read the post:
"If we are gas addicts, is the Bush family the pusher?"
I don't understand why the Bush family is involved in the question; to me, the question seems to assert that the Bush family is controlling and/or manipulating gas prices. Perhaps I'm just not getting it, which is certainly possible due to lack of sleep.
"If we are gas addicts, is the Bush family the pusher?"
I don't understand why the Bush family is involved in the question; to me, the question seems to assert that the Bush family is controlling and/or manipulating gas prices. Perhaps I'm just not getting it, which is certainly possible due to lack of sleep.
So much, so fast
Been seeing this my whole life. Everytime ANYTHING happens, the price of gas goes up. Exxon Valdez runs aground, they raise the price of gas a couple of cents. A refinery fire, they raise the price of gas a few cents. The wind blows, they raise the price of gas a few cents. And in those rare times when nothing happens, then the Government raises the gas TAX!
I don't want another lecture about supply and demand, I understand it. And as far as environmental regulations, these are figured in already, unless we just passed a bunch of new ones in the last couple of months. And don't try and tell me about how the oil industry works, I have been a member of the Oil, Chemical, and Atomic Workers Union for 24 years. So I do have some background experience.
What I would like to know (if anyone has a logical reason), is why, outside of pure greed, have the prices jumped so much, so often, so fast, and for so long. In the recent past, once or twice a year, then every few months, but not, we are jumping every couple of DAYS. What has changed? All the old economic regulators (supply&demand, govt regs, etc.) are still in force, but what is accelerating the pace? Greed? or something else?
Anyone wonder why there are people telling us that if we conserve, the price will go down? Do you really believe that? WHY?
If we (greedy, selfish) Americans who are consuming, what, a quarter of the world's oil is it? If we only consume less, then there will be more supply and the price will go down. Right. And I have a fine bridge for sale, and some ocean front property on the coast of Kentucky. Cash, no checks.
Think about it for a minute.
If we could reduce our consumption by say 10% (for a number to play with), what do you think would happen to ALL THAT OIL? Would the oil companies be forced to sit on it, and lower the price to the consumer, just so they could get us to buy it?
OR
Might not the mighty oil cartels just sell it to someone else? If it was already in (or on its way to) refineries, then they would just find a different customer. After all these same people are telling us that China and India are increasing their demand for oil. And if, they couldn't find another customer besides the US (not likely), they still wouldn't lower the price, they would just pump less out of the ground.
So, is telling us that we need to conserve, to drive less, to drive smaller more fuel efficient (barely) vehicles, really, is it really morally and intelectually honest?
Been seeing this my whole life. Everytime ANYTHING happens, the price of gas goes up. Exxon Valdez runs aground, they raise the price of gas a couple of cents. A refinery fire, they raise the price of gas a few cents. The wind blows, they raise the price of gas a few cents. And in those rare times when nothing happens, then the Government raises the gas TAX!
I don't want another lecture about supply and demand, I understand it. And as far as environmental regulations, these are figured in already, unless we just passed a bunch of new ones in the last couple of months. And don't try and tell me about how the oil industry works, I have been a member of the Oil, Chemical, and Atomic Workers Union for 24 years. So I do have some background experience.
What I would like to know (if anyone has a logical reason), is why, outside of pure greed, have the prices jumped so much, so often, so fast, and for so long. In the recent past, once or twice a year, then every few months, but not, we are jumping every couple of DAYS. What has changed? All the old economic regulators (supply&demand, govt regs, etc.) are still in force, but what is accelerating the pace? Greed? or something else?
Anyone wonder why there are people telling us that if we conserve, the price will go down? Do you really believe that? WHY?
If we (greedy, selfish) Americans who are consuming, what, a quarter of the world's oil is it? If we only consume less, then there will be more supply and the price will go down. Right. And I have a fine bridge for sale, and some ocean front property on the coast of Kentucky. Cash, no checks.
Think about it for a minute.
If we could reduce our consumption by say 10% (for a number to play with), what do you think would happen to ALL THAT OIL? Would the oil companies be forced to sit on it, and lower the price to the consumer, just so they could get us to buy it?
OR
Might not the mighty oil cartels just sell it to someone else? If it was already in (or on its way to) refineries, then they would just find a different customer. After all these same people are telling us that China and India are increasing their demand for oil. And if, they couldn't find another customer besides the US (not likely), they still wouldn't lower the price, they would just pump less out of the ground.
So, is telling us that we need to conserve, to drive less, to drive smaller more fuel efficient (barely) vehicles, really, is it really morally and intelectually honest?
aspen1964 from this and previous threads I have seen your comments on, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you lean a little left of center politically?
If you are advocating loosening environmental regs, domestic drilling, and assumably pro-2nd; what issues bring you to the left?
Maybe neither side of the isle is perfect, but on these issues your closest allies politically are on the right.
If you are advocating loosening environmental regs, domestic drilling, and assumably pro-2nd; what issues bring you to the left?
Maybe neither side of the isle is perfect, but on these issues your closest allies politically are on the right.
aspen1964 wrote:
"
You start out a thread with something like that and expect not to be seen as bashing the president? Then you claim that you weren't? Just what in the world does the president have to do DIRECTLY with the price of gas? The office of the president is not a monarchy. I don't know if I'm more insulted BY you or FOR you.....
"
You start out a thread with something like that and expect not to be seen as bashing the president? Then you claim that you weren't? Just what in the world does the president have to do DIRECTLY with the price of gas? The office of the president is not a monarchy. I don't know if I'm more insulted BY you or FOR you.....
spacemanspiff
New member
if i'm such a fat bastid, then that MUST mean that bush is the one who makes carls jr and mcdonalds and burger king so enticing to me.
i hate you bush! you made me fat!
i hate you bush! you made me fat!
kingudaroad
New member
now that you mention it spaceman
I wasn't nearly this fat when Clinton was in office.
Those freakin Bush's.
I wasn't nearly this fat when Clinton was in office.
Those freakin Bush's.
All the old economic regulators still work. What's driving the volatility is fluctuations in the speculative futures market. Oil futures are traded as a commodity. Speculators swap the futures contracts back and forth a few zillion times before the oil is actually delivered. So a lot of the price movement is based on the supply and demand of the futures, not the actual demand today. Of course, the whole idea of the futures market is to accurately predict the supply and demand at that future date.
Futures markets are much more volatile than just plain buying and selling products. The market can only supply so much whatever and individuals only have a use for so much whatever. However, they can hold as many futures as they have the money to handle so demand for that is not limited to what they will actully use.
Oil futures have been traded on the NYMEX since 1983. As to why it's gotten so much more volatile in the last couple of years, that's up for debate. Whoever figures out exactly what drives it will be rich. Generally speaking, it's because of the increased demand. When your demand is close to the limits of your supply, prices will fluctuate rapidly.
Another point to consider. There's 42 gal in a barrel of oil. Back in the not so long ago good old days of $35 / barrel, that's 83 cents a gallon. And gas at that time was around $1.75. Take out 40 some odd cents a gallon in taxes (in Michigan anyway) and your left with around 50 cents difference in gas and oil price pre gallon. The 50 cents covers refining, delivery, sales and profit. Now we're around $72 / barrel for oil and, until this week's spike, around $2.70 for gas which works out to roughly the same 50 cent difference.
So why the latest spike? Switchover from winter to summer gas formulations and from MTBE additives to ethanol. We're running near the edge of our refinery capacity so that small reduction in supply caused by the changes, with no change in demand, causes the price to go up.
This supply and demand thing works EVERY time. It's not called a law for nothing.
So why the latest spike? Switchover from winter to summer gas formulations and from MTBE additives to ethanol. We're running near the edge of our refinery capacity so that small reduction in supply caused by the changes, with no change in demand, causes the price to go up.
This supply and demand thing works EVERY time. It's not called a law for nothing.
CobrayCommando
Moderator
Not only that, haven't world oil prices raised significantly as of late due to greatly increased demand? I would perhaps stockpile some gasoline.
If we use tactical nukes on Iran there is a small possibility that they could lose some oil production capability temporarily, and China and India would have to get it somewhere else. I dunno.... just something to think about.
If we use tactical nukes on Iran there is a small possibility that they could lose some oil production capability temporarily, and China and India would have to get it somewhere else. I dunno.... just something to think about.
And continue to add onto the cost to produce gasoline all of the new regulations placed upon the "oil companies" (to include whichever area of production actually deals with gasoline) by Congress. I believe (need to re-research) that Gasoline co.s had to somehow incorporate ethanol into their gasoline for some kind of environmental regulations placed on them last year by congress.
These additional regulations cost money to implement. Oh, and by the way, businesses operate to make money, so the whole "they shouldn't be making that much profit" argument is idiocy.
So the oil companies posted record profits last year. Did any of you who think you get to tell others what amount of money is enough stop to look at their expenses last year? How about the magic word profit margin?
So keep on with the cry "Less government interference with free-enterprise!!!! (unless it affects my gas prices)"
These additional regulations cost money to implement. Oh, and by the way, businesses operate to make money, so the whole "they shouldn't be making that much profit" argument is idiocy.
So the oil companies posted record profits last year. Did any of you who think you get to tell others what amount of money is enough stop to look at their expenses last year? How about the magic word profit margin?
So keep on with the cry "Less government interference with free-enterprise!!!! (unless it affects my gas prices)"
meanwhile...Exxon reports highest profits of any public company in history!
http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/ap/2006/04/27/ap2703383.html
http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/ap/2006/04/27/ap2703383.html
Economics understanding in the US is pathetic. Everytime gas prices spike we get the same bilge being pumped. We get the same arguments, same observations, same questions, same solutions, and same charges of greed. Very seldom do we ever see a swing being taken at those responsible for what is happening right now. The US goobermint has gone out of its way to totally screw up the supply side of the equation. I frankly am surprised gas is as cheap as it is given the interference goobermint creates. We are facing limitations on supply caused primarily by environmental nazi and our solution is huff and puff over greedy oil. What a crock of steaming, fresh male bovine skat. Our explanation of a shortage of supply is "Peak Oil", another pile of steaming, fresh bovine skat. Peak Oil makes a series of unfounded assumptions, waves its hands and says, "OK, the end is near."
We seem to have lost all rationality when it comes to oil policy.
We seem to have lost all rationality when it comes to oil policy.