If someone wants to search my bag...

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sbryce

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I recently took a concealed carry class. I don't have my permit yet. I have been thinking about how I might handle different scenarios. Something happened that made me think of a possible scenario I might have to deal with.

My wife and I were running errands together. The first two stops were Costco to drop of film and the gun store to find out if a particular gun I would like to purchase is too big to conceal in my briefcase. The gun store is across the street from Costco, so we parked at the gun store and walked over to Costco. I grabbed my briefcase, just to save a stop at the car on the way back to the gun store, and carried it into Costco. On the way into Costco, I was told that if I carried my briefcase into Costco, they would want to check it on my way out of the store. I presume this was to prevent shoplifting. I couldn't help thinking, what if I had a gun in the briefcase? Worse yet, what if I wasn't told on the way in that my briefcase would be checked on the way out?

What is the best course of action to take if a store employee has a legitimate reason to check a purse/bag/briefcase/backpack in which I have a gun legally concealed?
 
Probably show them your CCW permit, and tell them you have a pistol in the briefcase, then open it up and show them.
 
I agree with sambonator, explain that you have a ccw and that you have a weapon concealed in the bag/briefcase they are about to search. No surprises for them and you are doing nothing wrong.

I feel compelled to add... a briefcase is a fine place to store your weapon when you're sitting at your desk at work. It is not where you weapon should be when you are walking about and need to be armed. You may as well leave it at home. If your gun is too large to conceal on your person when you're going about your daily business... I think you need a smaller gun. Just my humble opinion.
 
As mentioned above, I too would show my ccw and explain what they will soon see to avoid any possible panic. Make sure that concealed weapons are allowed before entering the business though or you might have a problem.

Keep in mind that if you are mugged or about to be mugged, your briefcase will most likely be a target and will be taken from you before you can open it to retrieve your gun.

If you have enough time to foresee an assault and open up your briefcase to prepare, you had enough time to run or avoid the situation. Most likely how the law will see it I'm sure. I personally would not carry a gun in anything that is visible and desireable to a robber. I would really hate to see my gun walking away with someone else. ;)

Also, with a concealed holster, you don't give employees the opportunity to search you in the first place . :)



DWM
 
I gotta ask, HOW BIG A GUN DO YOU CARRY THAT YOU NEED A BREIFCASE TO CONCEAL IT?

You do not have to consent to the search if you were not informed of it before entering the store. I do not know the law in your area, but to unconceal your weapon by opening your briefcase may be a violation of your permit. In Texas if you 'intentionally fail to conceal the handgun' you have committed a Class A misdemeanor and this violation calls for revocation of the CHL.
 
First of all they are asking for your consent to search your property. If you say "NO" what authority do they have to search it?
Unless it is posted somewhere that is in view that they reserve the right to search your bag, or whatever, they have no business doing it. They may be able to ask you to leave, but if they don't trust you to shop in their store, then they probably dont want or need your business anyway.
Next time this happens, ask to speak to the manager and then go up the chain of command from there. The only reason they get away with this kind of BS is that people let them.
 
I went to Wal-mart one day on my motorcycle. I was picking up a bunch of stuff so I took a small backpack. The greeting lady wanted to look in the pack. I told her that I was gay and it was my purse and that I was going to raise holy hell cause she wasnt looking in the "other ladies" purses.
It worked for me.You could raise the same point without admitting anything.

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
Although I don't think I'd go as far as saying I was gay, I think I would politely tell the clerk that I was a CCW permit holder and ask to move to a more private area to let them search it, a retailer has the right to protect themself from theft as much as we have the right to carry. Any other view on this is playing the same game our counter gun adversaries do. People are just looking for any reason to accost gun-owners, and making an ARSE out of yourself in a store is not a good way to support our cause!

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DOCSpanky
"Walk softly and carry a big stick, perferably one of the 12 guage variety!"
 
Off body carry usually causes more problems than it solves. Find a good on-body holster and drop this briefcase idea. Just MHO.
 
Phillip makes a good point about the legality of such a search. They can't just take your briefcase and search it. Furthermore, they have no authority to hold you until the police arrive. That would false imprisonment and they would be in trouble plus probably lose in civil court.

The only thing that they can legally do is give you the choice of whether or not to enter the store with your case.

However, if you try to enter a sporting event expect to be searched. On back of most tickets is a disclaimer that requires that all such items be searched in order to enter the gate.

[This message has been edited by legacy38 (edited September 01, 1999).]
 
Thanks for the input. I had thought of showing the CCW permit and explaining about the contents in the bag, but I didn't think that the average Costco employee would know what a CCW permit was. I had also thought of leaving the bag in the car, but then, why carry if it is only going to stay in the car all the time? As for the possible legal hassles if the Costco employee sees the gun during a legitimate search of the bag, I'll have to check the local laws. If I didn't tell them about the gun ahead of time, I know I'd be in trouble.

Another possible solution: Politely refuse the search. If the employee insists, politely ask to see a manager. When the manager shows up, hand him the CCW permit and politely explain that I understand his desire to search my bag, I used to work in a department store myself, but under the circumstances, I'd prefer that my bag not be searched. Hopefully, the manager will understand. It is a little time consuming, but it is better than someone making a scene when they see the gun. (Or would I be making a scene by asking to see a manager?)

As for the briefcase: The gun isn't that big. I am looking at a Beretta 92. A little big for concealed carry, but it is concealable. The briefcase is handy, and it conceals the gun. If I have the side pocket unzipped, I can get the gun about as fast as a woman could get a gun out of a purse. The point about a briefcase being taken from me is well taken. Something I hadn't thought of. Since I use a laptop case as a brief case, it is all the more likely to be grabbed. Thanks for pointing this out! I'll have to think about an alternate means of carrying. (And my wife insists I get a smaller gun.)
 
Hey, looks like you've been given an excellent opportunity to get another handgun. I'd jump on it. Maybe a DAO compact?
 
I can't believe some one hasn't suggested this first.

The H & K SP-89 with the optional H & K briefcase. :)
 
How about continue walking past them and out the door? If they're not cops, I don't think they can do a damn thing.

Here in LA, at the computer superstore called "Fry's" they perform what has become known as "the final indignity." That is, asking for your receipt and checking off the items against what's in your bag as you exit the store. The stupid thing is that you can only go through the exit by going through the registers. I regularly walk righ past their checkers and they do nothing.
 
They do the same thing at the Fry's in Dallas. My girlfriend's father has complained to no end about the "nazi" that they hired recently to do these checks. The sad thing is that for so long people have allowed stores to do this under the guise of loss prevention. While it is a minor inconvenience and most people do not mind a quick search of your purchases and a look at your receipt, the line must be drawn at a search of personal property to include briefcases, purses, wallets, etc. From what I remember (working retail at a mall long ago) an employee had to actually see a person take an item, conceal it and then proceed to leave the store with out paying for the item before anything could be done. Some retailers apparently have gone to the store exit search method. Maybe it is more cost effective for them, and that is fine. Bottom line though is that we ultimately as consumers have given them the right to search us by not objecting to it.
 
So I wonder what would happen if I refused to stop at Costco's checkpoint on the way out the door with my purchases. Like Phillip indicated, a store has to have some sort of cause to believe you are a shoplifter before they can detain you.

Of course, they can also say "Please don't ever return to any of our stores again."

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“The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals. ... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of.” -Alexander Addison, 1789
 
The point I was making in my strange way is that if my backpack or your briefcase is subject to search why not every lady's purse. Ill tell you why-They wouldnt stand for it.
Just to be a male activist Im going to start carrying a very nice, color coordinated shoulder bag to the mall and Wal-mart so I can protest when they want to search it. And in the interest of factual I wont tell them I am gay.

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Better days to be,

Ed
 
From the old days when a certain type of robber was called a **********[can't remember the archaic cusswords] cut-purse, a money purse tied to the waistband/sash was a most common male accessory.

So, you don't *have* to be gayan/or a cross-dresser to carry a purse.

The shopkeeper's privilege to detain a customer for a reasonable time to ascertain whether the subject has taken anything without paying must in most states be based upon some type of reasonable suspicion.

Remember, the 4th Amendment search and siezure thing applies only to cops and other government types. With stores and other private parties, they have a right to ask and you have a right to refuse.

Just politely refuse without giving them any ideas about how to lie later and say they suspected you of shoplifting first. Only after it becomes clear that they are detaining you, should you advise them that you have a ccw and (a) you don't want to violate the don't flash the gun rule if your state has one, or (b) you prefer to never let anyone see your firearm and you refuse to let anyone get close enough to touch it. After all, you are responsible for the firearm, and if some stressed out employee grabs it and goes Postal, you'd hate to have to sue the company and the manager for making that crime possible...
 
As other folks have already stated, DON'T LET THEM SEARCH! No private (non-governmental) entity has the right to search you or your possessions, period. Allowing anyone to know that you are armed is a bad idea. Many seemingly intelligent people can do some stupid things in the presence of a firearm. Some will feel threatened, some will become indignant, some will call the police, etc. The last thing you want to do when carrying a concealed weapon is to call attention to yourself by unconcealing your concealed weapon. Showing the store manager or some other flunky your CCW permit is showing off what is supposed to be CONCEALED. No one should know you are armed until that fateful moment arrives that requires you draw your weapon to defend yourself or loved ones. And then, that should be the last thing the bad guy ever sees. Hopefully, that day will never come, but it may. So, until that time, keep your weapon concealed in public, practice like your children's lives depends on your actions, and pray that the "fateful" moment never arrives.
 
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