If riding a bike in FL Don't forget your helmet

Alan B

New member
I am not even going to rant about the cop who has had problems in the past, treatment of this boy, who knows.

But A law mandating the wearing helmets for bike riders...under 16 get real! Next they will be arresting and putting 3yr olds in jail cause they didn't have a rollbar and seatbelt on their pedal tractor (OSHA would love that).

Sure helmets and seatbelts make good sense, but doesn't it seem odd that we have to have big brother mandate it, after all helmets are the cure all for bike accidents. I mean a helmet saved Christopher Reeves head "and broke his neck" (I know he was riding a horse but the point is the same it didn’t stop a major injury). But if helmets are a good idea why not shin and forearm guards to prevent road burn or even full body armor…

They mandate air bags, how many small people and babies have been killed by deploying airbags when seat belts would have been better . Not to mention the chemical burns.

The Liberals want to mandate trigger locks on guns, we have let big brother mandate seat belts, where you can smoke in your one home, wearing helmets, and next they will tell us what we can eat and watch on TV. Gun rights my butt, we’re loosing the right to do something stupid without becoming a felon.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/daily/detail/0,1136,26000000000117788,00.html

sorry for the rant but some things should be common sense, besides how many of us rode bikes as kids without helmets and look at us were all right...aren’t we... maybe not, maybe one to many bumps on the head is made us gun owners..der aaa lee oops got to wipe the drool off my chin now.
 
Read this story yesterday. I have mixed feelings. I ride a motorcycle, abhore helmet laws for adults (although I choose to wear one), and rode a bicycle growing up without one. These laws are intrusive and unreasonable. However, the specific actions of the officer don't register high on my outrage meter after looking at the tape. The child was kept from running off (again, in cuffs this time), that's all. He certainly wasn't harmed. I don't fault the cop. The laws are dumb and only serve to indoctrinate youth that government knows best and they should do what you are told by them - not your parents.
 
Hmmmm --

Bicycle helmets are compulsory here for ALL bike riders or passengers (even infants).

Motorbike helmets are compulsory. Headlights are wired permanently in the "on" position (no "On-Off" switch).

Seatbelts are compulsory, even for infants (capsules and restraints). Now the road safety mob are pushing for compulsory crash helmets for drivers and passengers in motor vehicles.

Car immobilisers are compulsory.

Roadblocks for Random Breath Testing (motor vehicles and private pleasure boats) are a fact of life. So are car searches for weapons and/or drugs.

Gun safes are compulsory.

Kids at school have to wear a hat or they can't go into the playground in summer.

EPIRBs and marine radios are compulsory.

Smoke detectors are compulsory in new homes.

Isolation of swimming pools is compulsory.

But, hey ... it's all for our own good, isn't it?????

B
 
I watched the tape this morning and had I not noticed that the tape only caught the end of the incident and not the begining I would not have considered it much of anything. I dont agree with what the cop did in any way what so ever. Given that the officer inquestion was fired from the PD for being too agressive and then forced to resign from another PD for the same reasons, I am not unopen to the idea that he may have gone a bit beserk on this one.
 
The kid wasn't cuffed because he wasn't wearing a helmet.. he was cuffed because he had tried to escape the officer twice. The officer had articulable reason to think the bike might've been stolen.

The other night, one of my partners and I had to remove a 130+ lb 8 year old (yes, that is correct...) from the bathroom that she had barricaded herself in after trying to stab her (normal sized) 13 year old sister and drawing blood from her mother by biting her. It took two of us and some pretty effective control holds to get her out and onto a backbaord, so that she could be strapped down by the rescue squad and transported to the hospital for a psych eval. I promise you that if it had been necessary we would've used OC spray and/or more physical force.. can you imagine the headlines? "Cops beat and pepper spray 8 year old girl!!.

Luckily, we didn't have to get to those levels, but it was close, and we talked about it afterwards. Sometimes kids can't be treated with kid-gloves.
 
As probably wouldn't surpise the informed members of the TFL, the facts concerning bicycle and motorcyle helmets are not what one would think given "common wisdom" and media attention.

There is no compelling evidence that motorcycle helmets reduce fatalities for motorcyclists. In fact, since many states passed mandatory helmet laws for motorcyclists, the states WITH the laws have slightly higher fatality rates than the states without them. This isn't to say that informed opinion has it that the helmet laws make things worse, just that there is no reason I'm aware of to think they make things better.

MC helmets are designed to protect heads from impacts no faster than 12 mph. They couldn't be much better without being much larger, more expensive, and impractical, and even still there's no way any helmet could save a skull from direct impact injury at road speeds. In any event, even if, somehow, helmets were good enough to protect the skull from fractures, etc., at road speed, one's neck would break anyway. At about 13 mph direct head-on collision spinal fracture is a good bet and much faster than that it's a practical certainty.

I was reading an article in Forbes some time ago which was explaining that the primary safety benefit from the madatory laws is that fewer bikers ride. So, fewer accidents. This is appreciated by insurers of automobiles, since about 75% of the time a motorcylcist is an accident a car driver is legally liable for injury expenses.

Since I discovered this, I wear my helmet only in colder weather or rain (keep warm and dry) and with the thought that it might do some good in preventing non-lethal sliding type injuries to my face/head. It's SO much better to ride without it, though, it's good to know that I'm not significantly increasing my risk. Fortunately I live in a state where they haven't yet decided that helmetless riding is a crime against humanity.

Anyway, bicycles. Even less reason for helmets. It's a rare sort of accident-- probably doesn't happen once in a year-- in which a bicycle helmet can save a life. Consider that it would have to be an impact delivered directly to the top of the head, at a speed within the very narrow range in which a helmet would make a difference between serious injury and death, and of a sort in which a cyclist suffers no other serious internal injuries. It could happen-- but to wear a helmet all the time in case it did? Ok, but it's hard to see how it's rationally required. And mandatory by law?? It's one of the sillier things a legislature could do, which of course means it's a good bet it will attract their attention like a flame does a moth.

But, in any event, as may come as surprise to many readers, bicycling on public roads is far safer per mile than driving on them. And I mean in the roadway, not on the sidewalk or a bike path. A cyclist has less than half the probability per mile travelled of being in a fatal traffic accident than an auto driver. And that's the average-- chances get lower for club and touring cyclists. These are type, too, who are more likely to use busy, well-travelled roads as well, or to ride at night and in bad weather. Surprising? The primary factors seem to be (1) avoiding main traffic streams in roadway a significant percentage of the time (being off to the right, though of course sometimes a cylcist has to take the lane) and most importantly (2) lower road speeds. Pretty strong riders will average in the mid to low-twenties over longer riders, and fit recreational riders will do somewhat less. Many commuter types will move between 15 and 20, or slower. Fast enough to hurt yourself sometimes, true, but nothing like road speeds for cars.

Worse still, bicycle helmet laws have the most impact in keeping people off of bicycles. Which results in a much greater health risk through loss of exercise. This has been their most important effect in Oz, for example. This is why, surprisingly, a lot of otherwise statist physicians' groups oppose bicycle helmet laws in Canada and the U.S.

This exercise/accident trade-off is similar for kids as for adults, by the way. As kids are sedentary to a degree now greater than anytime in U.S. history, it doesn't make a lot of sense to do MORE to keep them off of bicycles.

Anyway, even if the empirical case were different than it is, I'd oppose these intrusive laws on non-consequentialist anti-paternalist grounds to which many here are also sympathetic. Certainly for adults, and certainly in the case of motorcyles. In the case of kids on bicycles it should be up to parents to decide whether they'll make their kids wear this bit of equipment.
 
I used to ride motorcycles and now I ride bicycles, both road and mountain bikes. I don't like the Government mandating such laws, but I'll tell you what, if you look around at the ******, *******adults who ride without helmets yet make their kids wear one only for the simple fact that they themselves would have to pay the ticket for juniors' violation then you'll see that these ignorant role models serve best as breeders of law breaking, self serving, and uneducated *****. So erase the laws, yet find the money to educate these ******, or what the hell, let 'em crack their heads, I don't really care!

[This message has been edited by tuc22 (edited January 09, 2000).]
 
Citizenguard mentions some good points about helmet efficacy. I had a track instructor refer to that 12 mph impact as the equivalent of falling off the bike while it was parked. I think the better the riders' skills, the more effective a helmet becomes. Myself, I buzz it to the bank in leather and kevlar (skin graft phobia). Some states have allowed riders to go helmetless if they get a designation on their license that proves they carry personal medical insurance. This is a risky logic similar to the gun and tobacco suits in that you become a "burden to society" by exercising your rights.
 
I am really torn on this issue.

On one hand, I want the government to stay out of my life.

On the other hand, if someone CHOOSES not to wear a helmet, and gets a severe head injury....I have to pay for it! No one can afford a million dollar hospital bill, so WE sport the cost when these people bash their heads in.

Like I said, I am really torn. I think we should be abolishing laws, not making new ones, and I resent every new law that governs my choice over how I behave. But, I don't feel that I should have to pay for other people's negligence either.
 
I think we should try to avoid the name calling, okay guys.....

You never know, one of the administrators might be one of "the stupid, idiotic adults who ride without helmets yet make their kids wear one"

For example, I don't wear a seatbelt (and, for the record, I don't like airbags....), but I do make my 4 yr old daughter buckle up.. it has nothing to do with the price of a ticket, it has to do with her being a fragile little angel ( ;)), personally, every time I put one on, I end up half choking myself out when I go to get out of the car.

Also, for the record, I don't write adults for not wearing their seatbelts, but I have a zero tolerance policy on unbuckled kids and infants without car seats.
(AND, in Virginia LEOs are exempted from seatbelt laws while on duty. Off-duty I sorta take my chances like everyone else who chooses to be a Evil Reckless Law-Breaker.)
 
Cassandra, Sorry this response is long, but you said you were torn. Rob - I think your approach is spot on. Forgive me but I think this premise relates to gun rights too. www.ama-cycle.org HELMET USE AND HELMET LAWS
The AMA believes there is a clear distinction between the use of
helmets and mandatory helmet use laws. Some view the helmet
solely as a mechanical safety device, similar to seat belts. Many
motorcyclists view the helmet as an accessory of personal apparel --
its use or non-use is connected with a chosen lifestyle and their right
as adults to make their own decisions.

Regardless of the protective equipment worn, the accident-involved
motorcyclist is at considerable risk. This makes it all the more vital
to avoid motorcycle accidents in the first place, a strategy widely
recognized and pursued in the motorcycling community. Mandatory
helmet laws do nothing to prevent accidents.

Helmet laws remove a personal freedom -- the freedom to choose
helmet use. They are a manifestation of the misguided belief that
citizens lack the wisdom to make personal safety decisions for
themselves and must therefore be subjected to increasingly intrusive
laws.

Helmet law proponents argue that losing this freedom is a small price
to pay for the benefits reaped by society. They suggest that the
health care costs associated with unhelmeted motorcyclists place an
excessive burden on taxpayers. However, when the costs of
motorcycle related injuries are examined in the context of the total
social health care picture, the figures are not unusually startling.

The "social burden" or "cost to the taxpayer" argument is a recurring
theme in a variety of issues. It is frequently used in attempts to enact
increasingly onerous laws. The targets of these laws are portrayed in
the poorest possible light and usually overlooked as taxpayers
themselves. Such has been the case with motorcyclists and the
helmet issue.

Long ago, we decided as a civilized society to balance individual
freedoms with social costs. Unfortunately, the research which we, as
taxpayers, fund for the purposes of educating ourselves is
increasingly turned against us; it is used as ammunition to assault this
balance and to erode individual freedoms. This is unacceptable.

The AMA is a strong advocate of motorcycle rider education,
improved licensing and testing, and increased public awareness; all
are measures proven to reduce accidents and improve safety. This
comprehensive approach has contributed significantly to a dramatic
improvement in motorcycle safety over the years. Such programs
did not exist thirty years ago, when it was first determined that
mandatory helmet use laws were the panacea for improving
motorcycle safety.

The AMA believes that a common principle should be applied when
consideration is given to mandating personal safety, whether it be for
motorcycling or some other risk-related activity: adults are capable
of making personal safety decisions for themselves. Society's role is
not to mandate personal safety, but rather to provide the education
and experience necessary to aid us in making these decisions for
ourselves.

RESPONSES TO CLAIMS MADE BY HELMET LAW
ADVOCATES
Claim: Injured motorcyclists are uninsured and rely upon the public
to pay for their injuries.
Response: Motorcyclists are just as likely to be privately insured as
any other road user. If a motorcyclist's injuries are not covered by
insurance, it is often because their employer has denied them these
benefits.

A Harborview Medical Center study reported 63.4% of the injured
motorcyclists in the trauma center relied on public funds to pay their
hospital bills. However, according to testimony by David Gitch,
director of the trauma center, 67% of the general patient population
also relied on public dollars to pay their hospital bills in the same
time period.

A study by the University of North Carolina's Highway Safety
Research Center reported that 49.5% of injured motorcyclists had
their medical costs covered by insurance, while 50.4% of the other
road trauma victims were similarly insured.

Many self-insured employer health plans simply deny medical
payments for injuries sustained in motorcycle accidents. This is a
policy adopted by the employer, not the motorcyclist.

Claim: The costs associated with unhelmeted motorcyclist injuries
and fatalities compel the enactment of mandatory helmet laws to
save taxpayer dollars.
Response: The costs associated with the treatment of motorcyclist
injuries account for less than 1/1000 of one percent of total US
health care costs. Only a portion of these costs are attributable to
unhelmeted motorcyclists, the majority of which are paid by private
insurance. The remainder, spread across the taxpayer base (which
includes millions of motorcyclists), becomes insignificant.

Approximately 12.5% of total US health care costs are
attributable to motor vehicle accidents.
Motorcycles represent only 6/10 of one percent of the
accident-involved vehicles nationwide.
There are 30 million motorcyclists nationwide. The average
motorcyclist is 33 years old, married, college-educated and
earns slightly more than $33,000 a year. Motorcyclists pay
taxes, too.

Claim: Mandatory helmet laws are the most effective way to reduce
the injuries and fatalities that result from motorcycle accidents.
Response: The most effective way to reduce motorcycle injuries
and fatalities is to prevent accidents from occurring. Helmets and
helmet laws do not prevent accidents.

COMPREHENSIVE PROGRAMS THAT PROMOTE
MOTORCYCLE SAFETY
Motorcycles represented only 6/10 of one percent of the
crash-involved vehicles in 1994. Since 1975, the fatality rate for
motorcyclists per 100 million vehicle miles traveled has declined
nearly 56 percent even though the average vehicle miles traveled has
increased 85 percent. Although these statistics are unmatched by
any other category of road user, there remains room for
improvement. Several less personally intrusive measures can be
taken to make motorcycling safer:

Creative motorcycle safety programs that provide incentives to
promote licensing and testing can reduce accident and fatality
statistics further. One out of five motorcycle operators (22 percent)
involved in fatal crashes in 1994 was operating with an invalid
license.

Nearly 50 percent of all fatal motorcycle crashes involve alcohol.
Alcohol awareness programs and "Dial a Ride" campaigns can
drastically reduce alcohol-related accidents and fatalities.

Two out of three motorcycle related multi-vehicle crashes are
caused by the driver of another vehicle. The most common accident
involves an automobile failing to yield the right of way to the
motorcyclist. Motorist awareness campaigns and conspicuity
programs can reduce the frequency of these types of accidents.

MOTORCYCLING FACTS

Motorcycles represent only 6/10 of one percent of the
accident-involved vehicles nationwide.
Motorcycle accidents have declined by 60 percent since
1985.
Over 100,000 motorcyclists complete the Motorcycle Safety
Foundation's Rider and Street Skills rider education course
each year.
Forty-four states have rider education programs designated
through legislation.
The economic value of motorcycling in the U.S. is 5.9 billion
dollars a year.
 
Rob:
Go back and look at my post, I cleaned up the name calling yet left the message intact, I wasn't talking about seat belts, I meant what I said about those adults. One big reason adults and others refuse to wear helmets has to do with vanity or is about looking "cool" and in control. They refuse to believe that such a simple thing as riding a bike is so dangerous (why, it's something as old and dear as childhood to them). Bottom line is why should I, or even you, give a rats behind about what anybody else does anyway. I've made my informed decision (at least in my mind) and you, at least, care very much about children and have their safety in mind.

[This message has been edited by tuc22 (edited January 09, 2000).]
 
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