If I wanted an open-top cartridge gun...

V

Vilkata

New member
I really love the way the 1851 Navy guns, and all those style guns, look and feel in my hand. Pointing them seems so natural and simple. I vastly prefer this streamlined approach to revolvers more than the giant clunky modern S&Ws, although I understand why the open-tops are inherintly strcturally weak.

The first revolver I personally buy, this december, will be a little S&W .32 H&R, as I have said in a previous thread. But after that, buying a little open-top would be great.

I live in California. What are my options?

I dont mind any calibers, as long as I can use modern ammo in them. Someone in another thread bought a .32 short open top, and I'm sure no matter how structurally insecure open-tops are, they could handle the little .32 short round. Something like that would be ideal!

Just thought I'd ask.

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Iver Johnson made several models of top break revolvers, if that is what you are referring to. They can be purchased for very little. If you are handy you can get one that needs a bit of work and rescue it, then you have saved a gun and gotten a good deal too.
 
I suggest Ubertis. The open tops in black powder are all available with cartridge conversions from R&D. I suggest Taylor's & Co. for one complete shopping stop. You might seek better information at www.cascity.com
 
Hmmm... Sir William... I just read that other thread where you explain the difficulty of cleaning open-top revolvers.

While I think theyre great looking, I had never expected they would be that maintenance intensive!

I think I'll actually have to reconsider getting one now... I understand that they will be wonderful guns, if you maintain them properly, but I would want one as a casual shooter, using its great pointing ability and feel to good use. And I wouldnt want to spend an hour cleaning it, without breaking it down, every time.

Thank you very much for your input you guys!

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This one shot very well -sold by emf. I suspect strongly that the Uberti's from Cimarron would be much more trustworthy in the long term. this one had an extra weak mainspring which broke early. Other than that, it is very nicely finished, has held up since the spring replacement, has a light trigger and action. All this even though it was very likely made by the accursed Armi San Marco factory.

The handling and balance is very much like the 61 Navy
 
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There have been quite a few open top cartridge revolvers, most of them dating from shortly after the percussion era. They proved impractical in the cartridge era because of the different way the stress is directed in a cartridge revolver vs. a percussion revolver.

In a percussion revolver, the entire cylinder recoils and the strain is taken up by the thicker part of the standing breech. In a cartridge revolver (or at least a conventional one), the cartridge case recoils and places the strain higher up on the breech, with the resulting leverage tending to try to bend the breech backward. That is why most cartridge revolvers use a top strap to take the strain and hold the gun together. That, of course, is also why top breaks cannot handle heavy loads. No matter how closely the top joint is fitted, the strain of even moderate loads eventually will pound the gap and cause looseness.

As to cleaning, if the open top uses a key in the cylinder arbor (Colt type), it will have to be cleaned by removing the key. Other ways are possible, like the early M&H which uses a stud on the lower part of the barrel boss to lock into the frame. But note that M&H soon went to a top strap which also locked into the standing breech.

So if you are content with light loads on the order of .38 S&W factory, an open top is probably practical. For any heavier loads, it is not.

Jim
 
Wow, mec, that .38 you have is gorgous!

Actually though, I sort of had a specific, hypothetical design in my head.

I really like octagon barrels. I think they add an entire new look to a gun, an awesome one. However, octagon barrels are far less strong than round barrels, so thats why I wanted a gun chambered in some sort of really wimpy cartridge, like the .32 Short.

Thank you guys for all your information though! Even if I never get my little dream open-top, you've supplied me with a wealth of valuable information I can now pass on to others. Thanks!

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Edit:

Say. Random question, but I don't want to open up a new thread.

I have a crappy little FIE .22 revolver thats been in my family for years. It went through my brother, and he basically let it fall apart, and then I got it, and I repaired it, shined it up, and got it working again. However, the thing is ridiculously unacurate, and because of a blatent flaw in the FIE design, the cylinder locks up sometimes, and the only way to correct it is to pull out the cylinder pin, pull out the cylinder, and then depress the hammer, then start all over again.

Its worthless.

Do you think a gunsmith could do anything fun with it? It has a fairly thick barrel. Think I could have it bored up from .22 Rimfire (it has a magnum cylinder also), to .32 short?

I think the timing is a bit off, the cylinder is a bit jiggly, and I cant even tell you how innacurate it is right now. I thought it was MY fault that I wasnt even hitting the paper targets at 21 feet!

Is it just a total worthless gonner? Or do you think I could pay some extra money, and have it customised into something rather fun?

Boring it up from .22 to .32 is only a tenth of an inch, and it seems like the revolver was built rather bulky, like maybe FIE had produced larger calibers in the same frame. I dont know how hard it would be to turn rimfire into centerfire though... In my head, all that would change was the placement of the firing pin.

I want to do SOMETHING with it! What do you think?

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seems that most of the open top ctg guns were round barreled because that was the final evolution of the colt percussion revolvers- round barrel with a ratcheted loading lever. The one in the picture is a Richards conversion from aboutg 1871. Colt had several variations of open tops up until 1873 and I/ve read that they actually stayed in production after the Peacemaker came out. The cimarron catalog is a real good place to look. They have some highly engraved and plated ones that are priced in the $4,000 range. Nice to look at.

Some people say that the Navy Hickock had in Deadwood was a cartridge conversion with the impression that it was one of his old 51 navies. The more I read though, the more I'm sure that nobody knows exactly what Hickock had at any given time.
 
"I really like octagon barrels. I think they add an entire new look to a gun, an awesome one. However, octagon barrels are far less strong than round barrels, so thats why I wanted a gun chambered in some sort of really wimpy cartridge, like the .32 Short."


If you want an octagon barrel, then get one. I've never heard that octagon barrels were weak, given a similar wall thickness. (Ross Seyfried had a 475 Linebaugh pistol built with an octagon barrel)The barrel is not the weak point of a revolver, the cylinder is, and the frame to a lesser extent. If the cylinder/frame is up to a particular load, the barrel will never give any trouble.
 
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