IDPA Observations (No, this shouldn't be in Comp. Shooting)

W

whitebear

New member
I shot my first IDPA match on Saturday, and made some observations...

(OK, take a deep breath, here goes...)

The only guns I saw malf all day long were... Glocks. I saw light primer strikes, jams, sticking mags (one guy with what were definitely drop-free mags had to coat them with lube to get them to drop out of his gun). Meanwhile, the wheelguns, 1911s, Rugers, Sigs, etc. were all running like tops.

I make no statements about the maintenance history or condition of the guns that had problems. I only state the surface facts. I did, however, keep thinking "Glock Perfection?"

Yes, I do shoot a 1911 - Springfield SS Champion, .45 ACP.

Let the flames begin! :eek: :cool: :eek:
 
Well buddy I think you said it all. Glocks are neat guns but when the s*** hits the fan and I can't get to a long gun,my Kimber and Wilson mags is what will be in my hand;)
 
I too observed gun stoppages and mag troubles at what was my first IPSC match last week.

What I won't do is indulge in generalizations, or wonder aloud in sneaky slight. :p

Yep, it's the HIGH ROAD for me. ;)

Just kiddin' ya'. I shot a G19. Mine was the only Glock in my squad. Most others had 1911 race guns of one price range or another.

Here's my reported observation: the more a guy's gun cost, the more he would swear.
 
Question:

Percentage wise, how many Glocks were there vs. all the others?

I've shot IDPA too. I've seen Glocks have problems there. I also noticed 90% of the guns in use were Glocks. Law of averages.
 
I my experience at a lot of IDPA matches, the only guns I've seen consistently malfunction were 1911s, and those were guns that weren't box stock and whose owners were experiementing.

Glocks, from what I've seen, have been among the most reliable guns out there. I just don't care for them that much.
 
From my observations - mostly at IDPA matches - the original 17 in 9mm seems to be the most reliable Glock. I suspect - but can't prove - that most malfunctions come from either "limp wristing" the pistols or using bad ammo. Some Glocks have a tendency to malfunction if you push up on the magazine when shooting.

Glocks are good, but like anything made by Man, they're not perfect.

1911's seem to jam far more often than Glocks . . . in particuar, I see a lot of Kimbers choke since there are so many of them around.

Now that I think about it, I've been seeing fewer Kimber malfs lately than I did 2 years ago...maybe they've ironed out the early bugs. (Of course, I see fewer people using McCormick mags now, too.)
 
Not a flame but a statement of my own experience. I've carried a G17 as a duty gun and I own a G23 and a G34. In all the years I've been shooting Glocks, I've never had one fail to go "bang" when I pulled the trigger. Never. I love 1911's but I've never seen a more reliable semi-auto handgun than the Glock. It's not as accurate as a tuned 1911 but it always goes bang.
 
Funny,

I shoot IDPA to. I shoot State as well as local matches. Our local matches have at least 20 people show up at each match (some times 30). Many shoot 1911s (I own 4 of them), yet even though I rate 'Expert' and we do have MA class shooters, I outshoot everyone in the local matches (with a Glock 17). It never fails me.
I use factory CCI Blazer or Winchester (real cheep right now at between $3.50 to 6.00 a box of 50. Just add a few things to the gun but never ever had it customized or tricked out just to win a match. My carry gun is almost a mirror image to my 17, but it is a 19. That way, my training transfers to the street.

As for other peoples gun jamming, bet they put in all kinds of after market gizmos trying to better the others. How foolish. Shoot it close to stock and add only one thing at a time and shoot it in a few matches before adding another gizmo, least you add a whole bunch and the gun screws up.

Any gun make will jam if you screw around with it.

Deaf
 
I'm tempted to use my Glock 29 for competition. But, funny enough, glock strikers do not like winchester primers. Out of a box of 50 reloads, I'm good for at least 1 or 2 light primer strikes. Factory ammo... no prob. Unfortunately, I bought a case of the winchester primers, so I'm kinda stuck with them.
 
I don't see so many Glock malfunctions in IDPA as I do in IPSC. I suspect a greater chance of the guns having been fidddled with in the latter. Most of the people who are shooting Glocks in our Section are cops, and based on their performances, if I were a cop, I'd have a very strong preference for something other than a Glock. I don't really care what kind of gun it is, as long as it runs, and I have seen no evidence that Glocks are any more reliable or durable than any other service pistol (1911's most emphatically included).
 
I shoot in some kind of competitive forum allmost every weekend, and have only seen one Glock fail to fire in years (which was not due to limp wristing or reloads), and that was when the trigger reset spring broke on my G21 somewhere around 20,000 rounds. It could still fire, but you had to manually reset the trigger.
Most of the broken guns I see are 1911 varients, and they usually stop working.
 
More stuff: I have only shot a couple of IDPAs since the first of the year and helped officiate a LEO only match yesterday. I have seen Glocks, Sigs and Berrettas malf in the IDPAs. Yesterday was the first time I saw a 1911 malfunction. Have not seen a Ruger malf yet, probably because I have only seen two fired in competition - mine and one other.

The probability of seeing a Glock not work is high due to the fact that most folks are shooting Glocks. 1911 failures seem low compared to Glock failures probably due to the fact that I have seen fewer 1911s in local competition. Ruger failures are non-existent because the two (only two) I have seen in local competition have not yet failed for whatever reason (ammo, mags, loading, manufacturing problems).

When you talk about quality guns, malfs should be rare. You will see more malfs in the quality guns that are more popular and in greater usage than in those that are rarely used in competion. Glocks have a terrific track record, and no, I don't own a Glock, I just like to give credit where credit is due and don't like to bad mouth a product just because I don't own one.
 
I've participated in about 40 IDPA matches, and never used anything other than my G21 or G19 in them. Never had a problem with either at any time.

I have seen problems occur with every make and model out there (excluding wheelguns) at one time or another, however. The club where I used to do all my shooting held matches twice a month, and we had to shoot on Wednesday and Thursday evenings to get the 50-60 shooters through the course of fire. There were Glocks (predominantly - probably 60%), 1911's (second most popular - about 30%), and then a smattering of revolvers and others (HK's were less popular than the revolvers in our group). The 1911's had more problems than all other makes and models combined among our crowd, but the two best shooters used them exclusively. The rest of the top 10 or 12 shooter used Glocks (including myself), with the exception of one fellow who shot a BHP in .40 S&W. He actually had quite a few burps now that I think about it. Probably one every other match or so. Said a lot about his skill as a shooter that he was able to still finish in the top handful even after a problem.

Bottom line: No such thing as 100% reliability, even in wheelguns.
 
Honestly, folks, I have no axe to grind or anti-Glock agenda - I was frankly very surprised to see the Glocks have so many problems.

As far as the numbers go, in my group of 14, there were 5 Glocks, a Sig and 8 1911 pattern guns. The 1911s were a mixed bag, from my basically stock Springfield to a couple of $3,500 hand-build Caspian based guns in .45, .38 Super and 9mm.

The light primer strikes were on S&B .40 S&W ammo, if I recall correctly. I don't know what ammo was used on the misfire.

It must have been a bad day for Glocks and a good day for 1911s...
 
Nobody makes an infallible machine, but some come close if used right. Given a name brand gun, malfs usually come from crap ammo, crap aftermarket magazines or crap maintenance. Guys that shoot a lot often shop for case-lot surplus ammo. That's fine for practice but when shooting for record you should use fresh brand name stuff. Any mags should be tested long before the PACT timer beeps. Proper cleaning and lube keep it smooth.

I'm also reminded of why the Kalashnikov rifle is so popular -- it's made to loose tolerances, so it will keep on working even if uncleaned after 2000 rounds, or full of battlefield dirt. Some folks' competition guns are so tightly tuned that a stray gnat's eyelash will hang them up.
 
One more supporter of the Glock for IDPA. I shoot a 17 or 21. Love the 21 but the 17 is faster/easier/cheaper to shoot. I have never had a ftf or fte with either - ever. Albeit I could not watch every one of the 70+ shooters at the WI IDPA State Championship but the only Glock failures I saw was a fellow using USA mags. I shot from noon to six and it rained the entire time. By the end of the match it was hard to find ejected mags under the water and mud. Not a hiccup from my 17.:D
 
Back around 20 years ago, there were no race guns in IPSC. Mostly Colt 1911A1s, with trigger job, sights, polished ramp and bevelled mag well. They were really reliable, as well. Most screwups were either bad magazines or bad handloads.

Then various self-taught "gunsmiths" started creating "raceguns". I remember one club match where of seven or eight such homemade wonders, five misfired, jammed, or had some other malf.

I've never gone inside a Glock, but I know that the Colt is easy to go into and "tweak" things. That's all well and good, but some guys could take a rubber hammer and break anvils...

From what I've seen, either let a pro do the work, or stay pretty close to stock with merely "cleaning up" a handgun. Just-cleaned-up pistols seem to be reliable, regardless of brand name.

FWIW, Art
 
Sounds more like a problem with reloaded ammo than with the firearm.

Just out of curiosity, what do the top IDPA players use?

Tstr
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top