Identify This Frame? Beware: Depressing

T

Tom Servo

Staff
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This lovely specimen was dropped off with our gunsmith today. As you can see, the ejector rod and front sight have been wrenched off.

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The frame is some kind of pot-metal, but I can't find any identifying markings. I'm thinking possibly a Heritage. Can anyone name it?

Normally, I wouldn't care, but this is the depressing part:

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Someone grafted that barrel to that frame. I don't know if I want to live in a world where things like this happen.
 
that gun.... is not a heritage product in anyway shape or form.


however, have you played with it? if that loading gate serves as the bolt stop i think it may be a genuine double action saa frame.
 
Somebody just installed an SAA barrel on it. That's probably why its finish looks so much different from the rest of it. So if necessary, you could install a 1st or 2nd generation SAA barrel on it if the one it has is toast. The 2nd's are not very expensive.
 
So if necessary, you could install a 1st or 2nd generation SAA barrel on it if the one it has is toast.
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So, is there a chance the barrel was original to the gun, or should it be assumed it was changed? I'm now wondering if it wouldn't be an interesting project.
 
It has clearly been modified for light weight and superior aerodynamics. Whoever did this was a master of performance.

Did someone drop it off with your 'smith to have work done on it, or was it a charitable donation thought to be worthless? Guns like this usually come with a story.
 
"It has clearly been modified for light weight and superior aerodynamics. Whoever did this was a master of performance."

In the second pic of the OP the string makes it look kind of like a kite trying to break free.
 
Someone grafted that barrel to that frame. I don't know if I want to live in a world where things like this happen.
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What's wrong with that? Looks like someone took two old guns and didn't work and made one that did? :confused:

Looks like a fine example of making do with what you got. I'd like to hear the story.
 
The frame is some kind of pot-metal, but I can't find any identifying markings. I'm thinking possibly a Heritage. Can anyone name it?
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I thought this was a joke at first. The ID is correct. I just had a chance to buy one of these in 44-40, the "FRONTIER SIX SHOOTER". it was nice, but it was $2800, which is high for those, but it was in really nice shape. The gun actually still had fire blue on it. IIRC it was from 1905. I passed on it mostly because I don't think there is the interest in these as their are the older SAAs. Certain people like them, and many others don't care for them.

With a barrel marked "Single Action?" I usually saw those marked "Frontier."
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The barrel is indeed a replacement. Someone put the barrel on, probably a long time ago, when SAA barrels were common place, and not valuable. I highly doubt this gun was put together in recent times.

What's wrong with that? Looks like someone took two old guns and didn't work and made one that did?
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We all need to remember that before any gun was a valuable antique, it was a modern firearm, most likely purchased to be used, as any other tool is. It doesn't matter how rare it is today, at one time it was less rare. Guns were modified to their owners needs, repairs were done by people other than gunsmiths, because these people needed their gun to have attributes to make it user friendly to them. You didn't buy a brand new rifle, you took that beautiful wood and modified it to your needs. You didn't buy a carbine if you had a rifle, you just had some inches cut off your rifle. You didn't toss out this Colt 1878, you went down the street and bought a SAA barrel from the gunsmith to make it functional again, because you didn't have the $$$ for a brand new S&W ;)

I just recently bought a beautfiul Savage 1899 F (featherweight) 22 hi power with a stith no drill mount and ring set, and an old weaver 330. Well I fell in love with it, and then I found out that the barrel holes were from an old mount (they looked factory, but I was stupid, not taking into account that the gun was a carbine, so there would be no point for the factory to barrel tap the gun). When I removed the stith mount set, there were 2 more holes on the receiver between the peep sight factory holes. Yea, it sucks, but I sold it all off separately, and only lost $100. Had the gun not had the extra holes, it was worth a little bit of money, between a 99 F and a 22 hi power. It all matched too, of course. The user modifications is one of the things that makes older original guns so valuable. How many were left alone that survived?
 
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What I'm seeing says that the 1878, from the factory, used the same barrel and ejector rod as the Single Action Army. The only difference was the markings on the barrel.

So, any period barrel or ejector assembly should fit this gun just fine.

What's it chambered for, Tom?
 
As Mike says, the barrel threads are the same as SAA and the replacement was a straightforward gunsmithing job.

Even more so, Colt was not an outfit to let anything go to waste so they used some excess 1878 cylinders in SAAs, cutting bolt notches to make them work in the different action. Look at the price of a "long flute" single action before you dismiss it as an improvisation.
 
So, is there a chance the barrel was original to the gun, or should it be assumed it was changed? I'm now wondering if it wouldn't be an interesting project.
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Even if Colt did use some SAA barrels on 1878's, I would assume it was not original, due to the modifications and the difference in finish. I would agree it would make an interesting project gun, as long as the price was right. It's hard to tell how bad the ejector housing area is from the pics but it may be cheaper and easier to just replace the barrel than to fix the old one.

To clarify, it would be compatible with 1st and 2nd generation SAA barrels. The 3rd generation barrels have a finer thread pitch. Might be difficult and expensive to find an original 1878 barrel.

Luckily, it doesn't look like the ejector boss in the frame has been hacked off. I've seen that before on a US marked SAA. That was a depressing sight!
 
I'd assume that if Colt had used SAA barrels on the 1878s that they would have either polished or struck out the SAA markings and remarked them.

I can't imagine Colt allowing a gun out of the factory with the wrong model designation on it.
 
Even more so, Colt was not an outfit to let anything go to waste so they used some excess 1878 cylinders in SAAs, cutting bolt notches to make them work in the different action. Look at the price of a "long flute" single action before you dismiss it as an improvisation.
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Well thats a lot different, and happened because there were left over parts stemming from the discontinuation of the Frontier 1878 model in favor of the New Service in the early 20th century. The New service did come out in 1898 if memory serves BUT the 1878 was not officially discontinued until some years after that.

The long flute cylinder from a 1878 on a SAA did not take away from the gun's eye appeal, but when you have a DOUBLE action revolver, with a barrel that says "SINGLE ACTION" something just doesn't add up there. Despite Colt using up spare parts, like many other companies did and still do, in this scenario, it is obvious that the barrel is from a SAA, and did not come from the factory this way. Also keep in mind, the SAA was in higher demand, and was made a long time after that. So when you have a part from a gun in production, its not likely to be a "spare part" which could have been thrown away, had it not been used. Thats the case more so for parts from discontinued guns.

Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure with that barrel marking, its not a very early SAA barrel, IE blackpowder. I think its a smokeless barrel. I would have to pull out my Kopec book to check. Not that it matters much now I guess.
 
It is unlikely (read: it didn't happen) that Colt would put an SAA barrel on a DA revolver. But the SA and DA barrels, ejector rods, springs and housings are interchangeable, so someone simply replaced the barrel with one from a SAA. Might as well leave the barrel, as DA barrels are made from unobtainium these days, but an SAA ejector housing and rod should fit.

One note: If you disassemble that gun, remember that the sideplate/hammer screw has LEFT HAND threads. Many of those sideplates and screws have been ruined by people who didn't know that!

Jim
 
Tom, the barrel is marked Colt and the grips are Colt. One would think its fully a Colt no?

Even if it was two guns, maybe someone took two broken guns and glued together to make one. No one in their right mind would destory a gun to just make a hybrid breed. Maybe bubba? :D
 
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