While discussing the virtues of the 7 MM Mauser (7 X 57 MM ) a statement was made that it is the same as .275 Rigby. Is the case the same: neck, shoulder, LOA, base, volume etc.? The Rigby version was an African hunting round of the 20's- 30's from what I have read. Are the two identical twins?
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Identical Twins: .275 Rigby same as 7MM Mauser?
- Thread starter Sea Buck
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
Yes.
It wasn't uncommon for cartridges to be "renamed" to match the local nomenclature.
In Europe English and American cartridges were almost always usually renamed to take on the metric nomenclature common there.
The .404 Jeffrey, a staple of the African and Indian gun trades, was known in Europe as the 10.75x73mm.
In Germany the .25-35 Winchester became very popular in combination rifles as the 6.5x52mm R.
Cartridges that are developed in Europe and which are adopted in the United States seem to, more often than not, retain either their entire name, or elements of it.
The 7mm Mauser and 8mm Mauser and 9mm Luger, for example, all retained the metric bullet measurement, but added on a the Mauser and Luger names.
That said, there may have been minor chamber variations that crept in during the conversion of dimensions for the chambering reamers from metric to Imperial measurements, but they were minor at best and European ammunition will fire perfectly through a .275 chamber, and vice versa.
It wasn't uncommon for cartridges to be "renamed" to match the local nomenclature.
In Europe English and American cartridges were almost always usually renamed to take on the metric nomenclature common there.
The .404 Jeffrey, a staple of the African and Indian gun trades, was known in Europe as the 10.75x73mm.
In Germany the .25-35 Winchester became very popular in combination rifles as the 6.5x52mm R.
Cartridges that are developed in Europe and which are adopted in the United States seem to, more often than not, retain either their entire name, or elements of it.
The 7mm Mauser and 8mm Mauser and 9mm Luger, for example, all retained the metric bullet measurement, but added on a the Mauser and Luger names.
That said, there may have been minor chamber variations that crept in during the conversion of dimensions for the chambering reamers from metric to Imperial measurements, but they were minor at best and European ammunition will fire perfectly through a .275 chamber, and vice versa.
Jim Watson
New member
The now very low production Ruger No 1 is roll marked .275 Rigby.
One board had a lot of debate as to whether the .275 Rigby was a .284" same as 7mm Mauser or a .287" like the .275 H&H.
No doubt the Ruger is .284".
One board had a lot of debate as to whether the .275 Rigby was a .284" same as 7mm Mauser or a .287" like the .275 H&H.
No doubt the Ruger is .284".
"...Are the two identical twins?..." Close, but not identical.
7mm Mauser is here with a picture.
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd7mauser.jpg
Rigby Rimless dimensions only are here. http://stevespages.com/britsportrifcart.html
The .275 Rigby was a .284". The 7mm Rigby Mag used a .287" bullet.
7mm Mauser is here with a picture.
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd7mauser.jpg
Rigby Rimless dimensions only are here. http://stevespages.com/britsportrifcart.html
The .275 Rigby was a .284". The 7mm Rigby Mag used a .287" bullet.
Jim Watson
New member
The .275 Rigby Magnum Flanged is no relation to the .275 Rigby/7mm Mauser.
I see no Rigby cartridge comparable to 7x57R.
Flanged rifle or ammo would be a rare find. I would hope you knew what you were buying.
I see no Rigby cartridge comparable to 7x57R.
Flanged rifle or ammo would be a rare find. I would hope you knew what you were buying.
Mike Irwin
Staff
A bullet difference of .003 of an inch is nothing.
The English manufactured ammunition could be, and was, used in Mauser rifles, and vice versa, with no noticeable difference in accuracy.
The relationship is really analogous to that shared by the 7.63 Mauser and the 7.62 Tokarev.
Minor dimensional differences, but interchangeable in use.
The .275 Belted Magnum and the .275 Flanged Magnum have nothing to do with the .275 Rigby/7mm Mauser. They're more akin to the 7mm Remington Magnum.
The English manufactured ammunition could be, and was, used in Mauser rifles, and vice versa, with no noticeable difference in accuracy.
The relationship is really analogous to that shared by the 7.63 Mauser and the 7.62 Tokarev.
Minor dimensional differences, but interchangeable in use.
The .275 Belted Magnum and the .275 Flanged Magnum have nothing to do with the .275 Rigby/7mm Mauser. They're more akin to the 7mm Remington Magnum.
Mike Irwin
Staff
As I said above, it went both ways.
It had NOTHING to do with "We good Englishmen would never accept a godless German cartridge, especially what with Hitler coming some years down the road!"
It had everything to do with given English users a good, proven cartridge but with a name they could identify with, and it allowed the "originating" company a chance to put their name on a "new" cartridge.
The continental Europeans did the same thing with cartridges they adopted from around the world.
It had NOTHING to do with "We good Englishmen would never accept a godless German cartridge, especially what with Hitler coming some years down the road!"
It had everything to do with given English users a good, proven cartridge but with a name they could identify with, and it allowed the "originating" company a chance to put their name on a "new" cartridge.
The continental Europeans did the same thing with cartridges they adopted from around the world.
Jim Watson
New member
Bore diameter. Current SAAMI is .2755"
The two names for the same cartridge are due to the fact that Rigby had the marketing rights for DWM in all Commonwealth countries, so they named it in Imperial Standard measurements and their company name (.275" bore diameter, 2-1/4" for the case length, and Rigby for the marketer). It is in fact the 7X57 Mauser, just a bit more "refined" if you will.
Not only that, but with no SAAMI to help standardize names and numbers, British rifle makers made (or contracted for the manufacture) of their proprietary cartridges and no one else was allowed to make or sell them. If you bought a Jeffreys rifle or a Rigby rifle or an H&H rifle, you bought the ammo from Jeffreys or Rigby or H&H. We went through the same thing in the U.S. until the gun and ammo makers found it was in their best interests to allow everyone to cooperate on industry standards; that, along with government influence in the military cartridge field, created the situation where you can buy a Remington rifle of a given caliber and happily shoot that caliber of Winchester ammunition in it.
Jim
Jim
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
What James K said with the additional claim that international patent law doesn't seem to have been very well respected until the early 1900s. Change the name, a minor dimension, call it a proprietary cartridge in your own country, and you probably get control of it. At least that is how it seems to have worked from advertising and similar I have seen from the period.