I was in Dachau, last Wednesday

A

Art Eatman

Staff in Memoriam
Sometimes people ask me why I'm nervous about "Big Government". Or why I grump about views on the Second Amendment, much less the rest of the Bill of Rights.

For five marks, I got a guided tour of "Why?", in the Dachau prison camp. It was a work camp, not a death camp. Gee, only some 31,000 were known to have died there, of the roughly 210,000 who were known to have been sent there. Slave labor for the Nazi war effort, which will give a bit of pause about buying a BMW.

"Political opponents"--if you spoke against the Nazis. "Undesirables"--such as Jews and Gypsies and other untermenschen. "Enemies of the state"--if you disagreed with the political correctness of that era. Yeah, right.

One wonders at the possibility of a Kristallnacht, had there been general armaments among the civilian population.

As I went through the museum of photographs taken by the SS themselves, saw the reproductions of the administrative documents...Saw the pictures of the tortures and of the emaciated dead bodies...

"Never Again", it says on one of the commemorative monuments there. Reminiscent of Israel's "Masada shall not fall again!"

An armed populace and a relatively weak central government is one way of insuring, "Never again!"

Art

PS: Dachau was only one of over 300...
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Art Eatman:
Sometimes people ask me why I'm nervous about "Big Government". Or why I grump about views on the Second Amendment, much less the rest of the Bill of Rights.

For five marks, I got a guided tour of "Why?", in the Dachau prison camp. It was a work camp, not a death camp. Gee, only some 31,000 were known to have died there, of the roughly 210,000 who were known to have been sent there. Slave labor for the Nazi war effort, which will give a bit of pause about buying a BMW.

"Political opponents"--if you spoke against the Nazis. "Undesirables"--such as Jews and Gypsies and other untermenschen. "Enemies of the state"--if you disagreed with the political correctness of that era. Yeah, right.
[/quote]


It'd been nice if Feinstein and Schumer toured that place with you...might give them something to think about.

Of course, those two folks wold have probably been collaborators to a facist regime (as they are now...)
 
I once worked with a fellow who was with the Signal Corp during WWII. He was one of the first people to enter both Dachau and Buchenwalt (spelling?) when our troops liberated them. For the many years I knew this guy he would not talk to much about this and as time went on and we got to know one another better,He told me what he saw and his part of the liberation of the camps and of his feelings and expieriences at the time. Everytime we would discuss this it would bring tears to his eyes. No one will ever tell me and expect me to believe this never happened,Specialy by the firsthand accounts of which I was told. Those people who do believe this never happened should be taken to one of these places just to see for themselves. I believe this is one of the reasons Eisenhower had our people liberate and film what they had seen so as it would never be forgotten.
This gentleman is now disceased but I'll always remember him and what I was able to learn from him.
Art welcome back and thanks for the reminder
;)

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We preserve our freedoms by using four boxes: soap,ballot,jury, and cartridge.
Anonymous

[This message has been edited by loknload (edited September 17, 2000).]
 
I walked through Dachau about 8 years ago... it's certainly a sobering place. That is my MAIN reason for not wanting big governemnt, and one of the reasons group-think and rule of the masses is such a scary idea. Just look at the Milgram studies (fake shocks).

Too many people today say, "It couldn't happen again." But I'll be damned if I'm going to find out. And to think that the majority of the Jewish population in the US will vote Democrat... are we seeing a pattern?

Ben

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Almost Online IM: BenK911
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"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
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FWIW, Germany has had stricter gun control imposed by the Allies in'45 than what they had under the Nazies. The Nazies merely applied the Weimar laws selectively (i.e. Jews/Gypsies no longer citizens or sane), the Allies disarmed everyone.

That is one reasonwhy I wory about my relatives who live there. Of course, they moved to Germany from the USSR and don't know what they are missing (never been to the US).

[This message has been edited by Oleg Volk (edited September 17, 2000).]
 
Oleg, "... they moved to Germany from the USSR and don't know what they are missing (never been to the US)."

The young people of today don't know what they are missing (never been to the US of forty years ago).

The children of tommorrow will never know what they will be missing (never been to the US of today).

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Art,

"Wilkommen nach Hause." Thanks for reminding us that "Dachau" can happen anywhere, anytime, the people permit it.

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited September 17, 2000).]
 
Sinclair Lewis wrote a book titled 'It Can't Happen Here' in the 30s, describing a totalitarian US. It was his thesis that it *could* happen here, and that the necessary preconditions were an apathetic electorate and a desire for security. Even though dated, it is worth reading; and rereading every few years later.

OT, but pertinent. I once, in an official capacity, dealt with a very ordinary looking man, who had been a guard at Auschwitz. In view of the fact that he could no longer run nor hide, he blew his brains out two weeks later.

A great loss to society. Oh, yes--he lived right across the street from an American Legion hall at the time.

I don't suppose you could explain this to a soccer mom.

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I toured Auschwitz and Dachau when I was younger, maybe 12 or 15 years ago. I, for sure, will never forget.

I can't express how it affected me. The smell, the thought of what that soil had seen. I'm still at a loss now.

A good number of anti- or on-the-fence- folks I know have purchased firearms in recent years as a direct result of the tightening grip. Folks who don't shoot, don't even like guns. But they'll never forget either...just the thought of 'do it now, or forever hold your peace'. You could have counted me among them at first. I shoot now like it's my job, but the impetus was freedom. And it's still the bottom line.


- gabe
 
No slam whatsoever to any posters here (seriously) & Art, a hearty welcome home (you've been missed by at least one) ....

This to "the collective" ...

... but, Never Again!? It IS happening here.

From hate-crime legislation to the March of the Million Commie Mommies, if you haven't seen the gleam of the whites of their eyes yet, please do stay tuned 'cause it is right around the corner (nope. it IS already here) - so just sit back & bitch at the choir whilst in our safe & secure homes.

Although "keyboard warriors," we're not having an effect.

As with the old "and when they came for me ... " quote, we are isolated amongst ourselves and sure as not, not speaking out to those who would hear - or care to.

It ain't cuttin' it, folks.

How many years did it take to turn the direction of our "efforts" in Viet Nam?

Time for a new post .... & most certainly, time for a new direction of our own (non)activism.
 
It has happened here. Ask an American Indian. Robbed,raped,disarmed,enslaved,relocated, murdered;what more could a government do to a people?

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Be careful what you ask for..You may get it.
An unloaded pistol is a paperweight.
 
My wife and I lived in Poland for 3 years due to my work and we traveled to Krakow and Katowice area many times due to my job. We knew about city of Oswiecim and Brzezinka and their history but never went there until the last few weeks in Poland. When we went to see Auschwitz and Birkenau it was in December and it was incredible how the area looked. It was very peaceful area but very errie. Looking at the camps it was hard to imagin how people can be so cruel to each other just because they were "different". But then look at our own history with native Americans in last century or how blacks were treated in South until just recently. I guess being a minority group in this country I look at things a little differently.
 
... but, Never Again!? It IS happening here.
From hate-crime legislation to the March of the Million Commie Mommies, if you haven't seen the gleam of the whites of their eyes yet, please do stay tuned...

Agreed. I've been beating some of these drums for years, and wonder if anyone's listening.
The local Synagogue where my wife is organist had a woman ( now deceased ) who, after I'd known her for a few years, rolled up her sleeve to show me her tatoo from one of the death camps.
"Can't happen here?" Don't bet your life on it...
 
"It'd been nice if Feinstein and Schumer toured that place with you"

They would be very upset that they were no longer hiring!

As I've said before, Zero Tolerance has a Final Solution ring to it.
 
I toured Dachau several times when stationed in Augsburg in the Army. Dachau is the name of the German town outside the camp and is where the camp name comes from. The people of Dachau (town) claimed they never knew what was going on inside the camp!

The place has a dull, lifeless spirit about the place. It has a general lack of the spirit of life -- the most gloomy place I've ever been...but then what do you expect of a place where thousands of people were murdered!

Bruce Woodbury
 
support_six, my buddy and I had come from wanderings around Lindenberg and Lindau, and my son's wedding celebration (And a wondrous celebration it was, indeed!) and Dachau was a definite downer. I had seen the newsreels in 1945, and knew of the more famous of the prison/death camps--but that there were over 300 such camps was new to me. My father was involved in the liberation of the camp near Dortmund. Needless to say, "The Holocaust never happened" gets no tolerance from me.

Fortunately, we were on our way to Rothenberg on der Tauber--a truly neat antique yet living city. Thence, a scenic route toward Frankfurt...

Glad to be back.

Art
 
I toured the camp at Dachau in 1991 or so. What was disturbing to me about it was that it's just a place. It looked and felt sterile and neutral - almost inhuman. I mean, you expect a place like that to just have a evil feel to it, but it really didn't. I found that lack of "atmosphere" more disturbing than anything.

When you go inside, the photos of the medical experiments were quite unsettling.

"Arbeit Macht Frei"
 
Danger--

I have to disagree with you...Dachau has the most gruesome(sp?) atmosphere about it. Maybe I have an over active imagination, but when I visited ('86) I swore I could smell the gas from the chambers. I expected to see ghosts of those who could not leave because of the torment they suffered.


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Kim

NRA Millenium Life Member
 
Dachau was one of the first German concentration camps (a concept BTW invented by the Brits for interning Boers), established in the mid-30s. It was not a death camp per se, but as the prototype of its kind must bear a heavy burden. I cannot imagine any sense of joy prevailing there. It is good you visited. More people should. A visit might impart some humility and thankfulness.
 
I toured the place in 1983. For me it was a very sobering time. When you stand on the inside and look at that electric fence and the guard towers it really makes the point that escape is impossible. I can only imagine the hopelessness those people felt. The crematorium was too clean. It should have been left as it was found when liberated. Still a very dreary and forboding place. It made the hair stand up on the back of my neck when we walked in the wooded area behind the crematorium. Signs were posted indicating the burial sites of the ashes of thousands of people. There was a place in this wooded area near the wall of the compound where there was a small ditch for drainage. It wasn't for storm drainage. The Germans would tie Russian prisoners to posts and use them for target practice. The ditch was to drain off the blood. Horrible place. Everyone should be required to visit these locations.
 
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